I'm curious to see if Dr. D. will rehash his:
It's just the standard and pointless academic
> game of arguing about the meanings of words ("You're using the word
> '[...]' incorrectly; what '[...]' REALLY means (as some
> authority figure tells us) is that...") I'm all in favor of
> definitions, but they are for clarifying one's thought, not as some
> sort of appeal to authority. (After all, authorities are often wrong.)
>
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:30 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > The Zionists would
> > govern the middle east pretty much in the way they worked as stewards in
> > Eastern Europe
>
> JD: I don't get this. In general, the Jews in Eastern Europe were
> generally treated as second-class subjects, submitted to pogroms and
> the like.
>
> Joanna: Well, in Poland for example, the Jews were used to collect
> taxes/tribute and to insulate the aristocracy from the anger of the
> populace. The pogroms were one expression of that insulation.
>
> > Keep in mind that zionism rose at the same time as jews were being
> > enfranchised across europe (with every social revolution). The zionists
> drew
> > their support from those who would otherwise have been local leaders of
> the
> > Jewish ghettos, but whose social standing and economic security was now
> > threatened by the enfranchisement of the jews.
>
> JD: please explain. How does this compare to non-Zionist Jewish groups in
> Eastern Europe at the same time?
>
> Well, first we need to distinguish political Zionism (focused on the
> creation of a Zionist state) from spiritual Zionism (focused on reaching a
> spiritual rather than geographic state). Now when we say Zionist, we mean
> political Zionist; but this form of Zionism is of very recent vintage.
> Other Jews were encouraged by their assimilation into the mainstream and by
> their political enfranchisement.
>
> If you have time, you should look at the history of the movement. I'll see
> if I can find the books I read at the time. Reading the founding documents
> was a real eye-opener.
>
> Joanna
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own
> way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.
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--
Cheers,
Tom Walker (Sandwichman)
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