Me:
> Value is the tainted, distorted glass through which
> we (mis)handle or (mis)allocate our human powers. It is a socially
> objective (independent of our our individual opinions) reality.
Eubulides:
> I'd really like some substantial *evidence* for this assertion;
I should probably speak for myself, but I think some people here may
mean by "value" the social importance of things (and hence of people)
at each point in time as determined by the haggling among people
driven by self interest. On the surface, that is a price vector that
make people make adjustments to their behavior, like allocating their
productive powers to various pursuits. Evidence that *this way* of
determining how valuable things are is totally screwed up are all
around us. May I allude to the recent financial mess? The
environmental decay? The heart crushing effects of unemployment?
Similarly, the evidence is all around us if we stretch the category of
"value" beyond its usual meaning among Marxists to designate the
social importance of things (and hence of people) as determined not
only via markets but also via our political/legal organization, the
state -- in which case the mechanism by which we decide how important
things (and people) are is not market exchange but, instead, the
forceful appropriation of productive forces by the state ("taxation")
and their allocation to politically sanctioned ends. Again, all those
things I listed above are pretty substantial.
Or do you mean "substantial evidence" that the social importance of
things and, therefore, of people ("value" broadly understood) is
*socially objective*, hard like granite, pretty much independent of
one's individual opinions (except in very rare situations)? Well, I
think we can both see that money and the state are social
"institutions" and not products of nature. But to feel how they are
objective, socially objective of course (objective up to a suitable
social transformation), and not only subject to one's individual
whims, here's a couple of experiments one can perform at home,
provided we have a fire extinguisher at hand:
Take all your cash and burn it and tell me whether money, the
"institution" of money, is thus abolished. Take your passport, state
ID, social security card, birth certificate, etc. and burn them and
tell me whether the nation state collapses at once.
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