On 9/15/15 7:16 AM, Marv Gandall wrote: > > I thought this thread was about the origins of the Cold War. At issue > is whether “the encroachment of NATO at the doorstep of Russia is a > direct outcome of the encroachment of the Red Army on nations > throughout Eastern Europe.” > > Fact is that the Red Army “encroached”, as you put it, upon Eastern > Europe in 1944-45, prior to the onset of the Cold War.
You still don't get it (or don't want to get it.) Winston Churchill and Harry Truman started the Cold War. But in 1945 there were no Nato bases in Eastern Europe OBVIOUSLY because they were USSR "buffer states". When I referred to "encroachment", I was not talking about how the Red Army was deployed across Europe to defeat the Nazis. I was talking about how it was used to strangle the Hungarian Revolution, the Czech revolution in 1968, etc. I would have thought that an article that concluded with Peter Dryer's reporting from Hungary in 1956 might have made that obvious. Unless you were probably writing your blather based on Charley's extraction of a single sentence out of context. Sad really to see you bonding with PEN-L's resident Stalinist. > This also included Ukraine, which you seem to regard as the most > conspicuous example of popular hostility to the Soviet Union. In > fact, up until the recent fostering of ethnic hatred which exploded > into the country’s current civil war, polls showed a majority of > Ukrainians, “not only in the East, the South, and the Center, but > also in the historic Western Ukrainian regions of Volhynia, Bukovyna, > and Transcarpathia” had negative attitudes towards Bandera’s > pro-fascist OUN-B and the UPA. Support for the Soviet side in World > War II was particularly pronounced in the older generation most > closely connected to that period, but also included younger > Ukrainians, many of them born after the dissolution of the USSR. For > the details, see: > http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2010/Katchanovski.pdf I already referred to the lack of support for Bandera among the population and the popularity of the Red Army when I was debating you and your co-thinker Roger Annis. However, the fact is that the Banderists were a significant movement in Ukraine and it should not be swept under the rug. > > As for the other examples you cite, the Soviet interventions in > Czechoslovakia in 1948 and in Hungary in 1956, these did indeed > “create opportunities for the West” but occurred well after the Red > Army had chased the Nazi forces out of Western Europe. You might have taken the trouble to read my entire article in the first place so this would have been obvious from the start. _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
