If we include the lives lost in
the conquest of the Americas,
that's, what, 50 million people,
10 million, 100 million?  How
much do their lives count?  If
you say these are included in
"capitalism as a whole" (your
phrase), then shouldn't
capitalism as a whole be counted
as incredibly inefficient?

The usual meaning of efficiency is "best use" of -- ultimately -- the
productive force of labor in terms of overall human wellbeing.  In
general, there's little problematic about the notion of efficiency.
The devil is in the details.

What is "wellbeing" in a given historical epoch (the standard of
efficiency) is not fixed once and forever.  Societies are not
homogeneous.  So, who determines what is "best use" and what is
"overall human wellbeing"?  Concrete people in concrete conditions, to
the extent they are effectively agents or makers of history in its
many layers.  As a rule, in functional capitalist societies, the main
"deciders" (to use George Bush's term) are the capitalists.

But, as they go, even under capitalism, working people evolve both as
a productive force and as protagonists of history.  As a result, their
own notion of wellbeing evolves, and that's  a standard of efficiency
alternative to that of the capitalists.  So, the notion of efficiency
is a disputed territory, an arena of the class struggle.  What people
was able to produce one century ago is different from what people is
able to produce now, what moved people one century ago is different
from what moves people now, what working people tolerated a century
ago is different from what they tolerate now, etc. This much is clear
to me.

What I usually try to do, something that those who've read my stuff
here and in other lists can attest to, is follow Marx's lead with
respect to the political economy of his time, i.e. not to reject the
concepts of the economists tout court, but *to critique them*, in the
sense of deriving from them further and further consequences (reducing
them ad absurdum if you will) beyond the point where the economists
leave them.  It's like the category of profit under Ricardo or Mill,
which Marx takes away and turns into a specific form of surplus value.
That's what I think should be done with the apparatus of today's
economics: toss the shell of ideological rationalization and keep the
rational kernel, etc.  And in this exercise, I've been insistent to
the point of bugging people that we need to represent the concepts of
the economists adequately, resisting the temptation to trivialize them
or mock them for cheap political or ideological thrill.

So, if efficiency is to mean best use of (ultimately) productive force
in terms of overall wellbeing, then, indeed, all the shit that
capitalism excretes has to be included on the debit side of the
ledger.  This is disputing a territory, as opposed to letting the
capitalists appropriate unchallenged the concern about efficiency
(best use of the productive force, which is the productive force of
labor, which they appropriate gratis due to wealth inequality).

But, in this light, the content of the category starts to reflect the
POV of the working people as an emerging political force.  It's not
that merely by disputing the content of a term one secures some sort
of progress.  In a sense, all one is doing is giving conceptual
expression to what is already a practical reality -- the movement that
collectively asserts the interest of the working people, that
collectively enforces a decreasing tolerance towards the garbage of
capitalism, i.e. giving expression to a social rebellion!

With that info, anybody can see what my view is with respect to the
lives wasted and crippled as a result of capitalist progress (with or
without quotation marks).

On the other hand, if we contrast markets (not necessarily capitalism)
to communism in general and in the abstract, as the tragedy of the
commons argument does, then the question of which social structure is
more efficient, becomes a question of historical viability.

In that light, a sine-qua-non attribute of any workable social
structure, mode of production, etc. must be endurance, ability to
overcome competing social structures.  It has to emerge in and through
the struggle against them, prevail, replicate and sustain itself.
Humanity can only solve what it can problematize.  Communism, if it is
to exist, must go through all that and prevail.  Of course, the
virulence of communism has to be defensive.  The standards of what
maximizes social wellbeing under communism are much more demanding
than under any other social structure.  Communism cannot be built at
the expense of humans (or of the biological basis for human life), but
as an expression of the humanity of producers.  Thie whole process is
associated with an emerging new human morality.

Note that I am not questioning the possibility or the necessity to
build communism.  As a matter of fact, I'm convinced that -- within
the boundaries of historical contingency and excluding a nuclear or
environmental catastrophe -- communism will prevail *necessarily*.  I
have never been more convinced of this.  I also hold the old view that
there's an inherent fundamental tendency in capitalism to hit the
ultimate limits with increasing acuteness, not through some agent-less
mechanism, but through its spontaneous impact on -- mixed with an
increasingly conscious self-transformation of -- the working people.

In PEN-L postings, all this cannot be spelled out all at once.  The
posts would be unreadable -- as this already is. So, a bit has to be
presumed or inferred from context and the rest is to be induced from
the little we know about one another.  Or not... as I noted in a reply
to Jim.  I said to him, I humbly admit that human communication has
limits.

My reasoning can be faulty.  But nowhere do I imply that -- from the
vantage point of some moral Mount Olympus -- that brutality, violence,
Nazism, or rape are justified?

A final clarification: I'm typing this, not because I feel any
obligation to please Bill, in spite of the vehemence with which he
demands me to answer his questions.  I don't think he cares about my
answers at all, since he's already established my moral inferiority on
the basis of my "thoughtless use" of a word.  So, this is for those
who have not yet made that judgment.

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