19 maja 2017 12:24 - "Dave Page" <dp...@pgadmin.org>: > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Tomek <to...@apostata.org> wrote: > >> You don't care what You users say about Your software??? That's a nice >> statement... > > Twisting my words is a great way to make your point. Kudos. >> Twisting... Saying "I'm not going to lose sleep over it" means what - in >> case of someones concerns? > > No, it means I'm not going to lose sleep if someone doesn't like > pgAdmin, as you cannot please everyone - that's a fact of life. That > doesn't mean I don't care if users provide useful feedback.
Please understand - this is not about LIKING - this is about missing features and problems with the software... >> I've posted here a list of what is missing/wrong in new pgAdmin - did You >> even commented on that? > > Posted here? The website is quite clear that bugs and feature requests > should be logged as tickets on our Redmine instance. There is no > guarantee developers will read every message here. >> I get the bugtracker - but my first list contains 19 cases (from one day of >> using) - cases that >> every other dbms has, and previous version had... > > OK, so that means we have to use a different process for you? There > are very good reasons why we ask people to use the bug tracker - not > least because it allows us to properly track them. There are also good reasons not to release aplpa as "pgAdmin 4 is a complete rewrite of pgAdmin"... I understand the use of bugtracker - but I hoped that "complete rewrite" will be complete... > Feedback along the lines of "It's crap and I hate it" is unhelpful and > will likely be ignored. >> Nobody said this - we all gave examples what is wrong with it... > > Perhaps you should re-read the thread. Everyone pointed out something, yes I admit using words like horrible, but giving a reason why... >> How 4 is more stable than 3? Please explain it to us... > > Because it doesn't crash every 5 minutes? Because it doesn't go nuts > if it loses an open database connection? >> That doesn't mean more stable - that means You've fixed the bug (which >> everybody got used to)... > > Not breaking unexpectedly is the very definition of "stable". This debate is pointless - I can point lot more bugs in v3 but saying 'more stable' is an overstatement... >> In 1.4 - query SELECT 2/0; returns >> successfully... > > Oh? I haven't seen that logged. When I try it, I get the result in the > attached screenshot. >> https://ibb.co/eBbtdF > > In 1.4? Yes in 1.4. >> And please, please explain to us how 'less and slower' is better than 'more >> and faster'... > > The vast majority of the "more" wasn't used by anyone. Did you ever > create an Operator Class? Or use pgScript for example? >> Look at the list above... > > That doesn't answer or invalidate my question at all. Missing features does not answer Your question? So according to You nobody uses features I pointed out? > As for the speed, yes, it's a little slower due to the architecture, > but we're talking fractions of a second (at least on all the machines > and virtual machines I've tested on). I know I still can't keep up > with it. The only exception I know of is the query tool with very > large results sets, which we've been working on and already have a WIP > patch that makes it ~20x *faster* than pgAdmin 3 in some large test > cases. >> I don't see it - I see query that is running 14 seconds in v4 but 3.5 >> seconds in v3, seconds pass >> before new query tab opens, seconds pass before browse tab opens, click >> properties count to 10 - >> properties appear, table properties - You can see switches flipping on >> columns tab, try moving any >> window - drags behind mouse, try put back accidentally detached tab, and so >> on... > > With the exception of the query tool, which I noted above, and the > couple of seconds it takes to initialise, all of the above is so close > to instant for me that I can't begin to time it. Same pc, same db, 2 dbms - result are above. Sorry but "works for me" does not works for me... >> In v3 3 dbs connected 4 query windows, 2 browse windows: private memory: 35 >> MBytes >> In v4 1 db connected 1 query window: private memory: 600 MBytes >> In v4 constant CPU usage around 10% (damn dashboard) > > https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#5 > > Oh? You have a better idea for something that we wanted to be able to > run over the web? Java or Flash perhaps? >> My objection for html is for standalone app - not webapp. >> You know that every major databases does not use web as primary dbms yes? >> But even if we use it as >> a server side only (like phppgadmin) it is still slow... > > I'm sorry - I thought we were free to write and give away at no cost > whatever software we wanted. As are we free to criticize it... I asked You several times why did You choose html and now You have pulled - "it is free so we do what we want...". So the rest of this discussion is pointless now... > Seriously, this is Open Source. Contributors work on what they want, > and clearly (based on the number of contributors we have now) more > people want to work on newer technology that can be run in multiple > different modes - and based on the download numbers, most users aren't > disagreeing with our choices. We could have just quit and gone and > done something else instead but instead, people have put in well over > 20,000 hours of effort at this point to give you something for free. I write software for the living... I choose technology best fitted for particular case - no because it is modern/new/popular... As for downloads - these are probably people like me who after years of feature lacking pgAdmin3 hoped for something better... > I'm more than happy to help when bug reports are logged, and to make > improvements where issues can be demonstrated and reproduced. However, > if that isn't good enough for you then I'd suggest that maybe you > would prefer to use an alternative tool. You must understand one thing - first You stop developing v3, than release feature stripped v4, than demand to report issue/feature request You already know it is missing... Maybe this news for You but people used this software for more than 10 years - they got used to functionality - what we've expected was improvement (new features) not regress... -- Tomek -- Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (pgadmin-support@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support
