I kindly disagree :). I answered the request of Sven because I felt the discussion was highly unfair towards Esteban and I just offered my relaxed support. I see little constructivism in this discussion and my actual arguments would likely not add any value at this point.
Doru On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:47 PM, Eliot Miranda <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I am in favor of using monospaced fonts for the code and sans serif fonts >> for the rest of the things. I pushed the Source Sans + Source Code fonts >> for the Moose image since half a year, and actually people like the look of >> them. I am a bit surprised to see such virulent reactions :). >> > > again, ad hominem. > > >> >> @Sven: the mail discussions that led to the fonts choice had you in CC >> the whole time :). >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> On 15 Oct 2013, at 17:05, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> > On Oct 15, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> On 15 Oct 2013, at 16:35, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> except that it is not accurate :) >>> >>> >>> >>> - with a monospace you can have bolds and italic without problems >>> (it is a decent one)... and you also can play with sizes (for example, for >>> comments) >>> >>> - when you copy&paste you will lose part of your formatting no >>> matter if you have a fixed font or a proportional one (is not true that >>> you lose all of them... in fact I usually do not lose any) >>> >> >>> >> Sorry, but there are no sensible arguments in favour of a monospaced >>> font. It is just not needed (in Smalltalk). Another way to look at it is: >>> 99.99 % of the world use proportional fonts. >>> >> >>> >> BTW, I think whoever made this 'decision' knew it would be _very_ >>> hard to get this passed ;-) >>> >> >>> >> Maybe we should switch to C/Java/Javascript syntax so that we do not >>> scare newcomers ? Sorry, I could not resist. >>> > not taken. >>> > and non sense. >>> > idea is to welcome newcomers, not to became another language. >>> > Now... if font is *part* of the language, we could be talking about >>> the same. But since it is not, then we are comparing apples with tomatoes. >>> > >>> > I can say that no, 99% of the world do not use proportional fonts... >>> every other programing environment uses monospaced fonts. >>> > yeah, I know "we are different"... but we still code. Ah, no, sorry... >>> we "manipulate objects", but that looks really close to coding for me. >>> > >>> > and yes... I was expecting a lot of whining (even if it was not me >>> *alone* who took the decision), but I was expecting from people at least >>> wait to see the fonts before start the bashing ;) >>> >>> Well, it is not 'bashing', I just totally do not agree. >>> And I would like to know who else is in favour, how the decision was >>> made. >>> But I'll wait a bit for other comments. >>> >>> >>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Excellent arguments ! >>> >>>> I am with you 100% >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 15 Oct 2013, at 15:21, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Since the days when editors was able to allow me using any fonts, >>> i was always switching to variable-spaced font >>> >>>>> for code pane. And i am not speaking about smalltalk or pharo >>> here, it was C and Pascal those days :) >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> guess, what i would prefer in pharo? :) >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The bad things about getting used to monospaced fonts is that you >>> format code and it looks perfect, >>> >>>>> but then you print it or copy/paste it somewhere else where it >>> uses other font, and all your beautiful formatting are gone. >>> >>>>> Needless to say, that printing press was invented way before first >>> computer or digital printer, and all we know about fonts came >>> >>>>> to us from the printing world.. and i think i would be right >>> saying that before first digital printers there was not such thing as >>> monospaced >>> >>>>> fonts, because it is not economically efficient: you don't want to >>> waste space on front page of your newspaper by aligning glyphs to some >>> virtual grid. >>> >>>>> More than that, it works well only if you using same font size and >>> no bold/underline variants whatever.. as soon as you use variants or >>> different font size, >>> >>>>> all the benefits of 'formatting' using monospaced font is gone. >>> >>>>> That means, if we employ monospaced font for code, we will be >>> forced to not use bold/italic variants, or different font size (for >>> instance, >>> >>>>> i would be like to play with code highlight scheme, where comments >>> using different font size, or where method name uses bigger font size etc). >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -- >>> >>>>> Best regards, >>> >>>>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > > > -- > best, > Eliot > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"
