On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi, > > I am in favor of using monospaced fonts for the code and sans serif fonts > for the rest of the things. I pushed the Source Sans + Source Code fonts > for the Moose image since half a year, and actually people like the look of > them. I am a bit surprised to see such virulent reactions :). > again, ad hominem. > > @Sven: the mail discussions that led to the fonts choice had you in CC the > whole time :). > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> On 15 Oct 2013, at 17:05, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> > On Oct 15, 2013, at 4:52 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> On 15 Oct 2013, at 16:35, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> except that it is not accurate :) >> >>> >> >>> - with a monospace you can have bolds and italic without problems (it >> is a decent one)... and you also can play with sizes (for example, for >> comments) >> >>> - when you copy&paste you will lose part of your formatting no matter >> if you have a fixed font or a proportional one (is not true that you lose >> all of them... in fact I usually do not lose any) >> >> >> >> Sorry, but there are no sensible arguments in favour of a monospaced >> font. It is just not needed (in Smalltalk). Another way to look at it is: >> 99.99 % of the world use proportional fonts. >> >> >> >> BTW, I think whoever made this 'decision' knew it would be _very_ hard >> to get this passed ;-) >> >> >> >> Maybe we should switch to C/Java/Javascript syntax so that we do not >> scare newcomers ? Sorry, I could not resist. >> > not taken. >> > and non sense. >> > idea is to welcome newcomers, not to became another language. >> > Now... if font is *part* of the language, we could be talking about the >> same. But since it is not, then we are comparing apples with tomatoes. >> > >> > I can say that no, 99% of the world do not use proportional fonts... >> every other programing environment uses monospaced fonts. >> > yeah, I know "we are different"... but we still code. Ah, no, sorry... >> we "manipulate objects", but that looks really close to coding for me. >> > >> > and yes... I was expecting a lot of whining (even if it was not me >> *alone* who took the decision), but I was expecting from people at least >> wait to see the fonts before start the bashing ;) >> >> Well, it is not 'bashing', I just totally do not agree. >> And I would like to know who else is in favour, how the decision was made. >> But I'll wait a bit for other comments. >> >> >>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:53 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Excellent arguments ! >> >>>> I am with you 100% >> >>>> >> >>>> On 15 Oct 2013, at 15:21, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Since the days when editors was able to allow me using any fonts, i >> was always switching to variable-spaced font >> >>>>> for code pane. And i am not speaking about smalltalk or pharo here, >> it was C and Pascal those days :) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> guess, what i would prefer in pharo? :) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The bad things about getting used to monospaced fonts is that you >> format code and it looks perfect, >> >>>>> but then you print it or copy/paste it somewhere else where it uses >> other font, and all your beautiful formatting are gone. >> >>>>> Needless to say, that printing press was invented way before first >> computer or digital printer, and all we know about fonts came >> >>>>> to us from the printing world.. and i think i would be right saying >> that before first digital printers there was not such thing as monospaced >> >>>>> fonts, because it is not economically efficient: you don't want to >> waste space on front page of your newspaper by aligning glyphs to some >> virtual grid. >> >>>>> More than that, it works well only if you using same font size and >> no bold/underline variants whatever.. as soon as you use variants or >> different font size, >> >>>>> all the benefits of 'formatting' using monospaced font is gone. >> >>>>> That means, if we employ monospaced font for code, we will be >> forced to not use bold/italic variants, or different font size (for >> instance, >> >>>>> i would be like to play with code highlight scheme, where comments >> using different font size, or where method name uses bigger font size etc). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Best regards, >> >>>>> Igor Stasenko. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > -- best, Eliot
