well if you keep the overall design of morphic or even improve it. I have no complain and you have my full support. I thought that you wanted to remove Morphic and make Spec the standard design for Pharo. I know what neither Athens or Roassal is a replacement for Morphic.
I remember once I took a look at TreeMorph and I was shaking my head with sadness, it was really bad :D So yes Morphic is very messy. I also don't claim, just for the record, that the above libraries are not very useful and that I am not happy that are around and I can use them. I really appreciate people hard work and I am definitely try to learn as much as my limited free time allows me to. Maybe if you sit down and build a roadmap on the direction you want to go as a community on the GUI front this will help people contribute as it will set a clear goal for them. On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 11:25 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11 Jun 2014, at 17:15, kilon alios <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes personally I really like the overall design of a morph embedding nice > and easily inside another morph and everything made up of morphs. I like > the idea of hand , world , etc. > > I try to like Spec, but it looks to me quite confusing, I tried to follow > the tutorial but I cant understand its design and why so many methods are > needed to setup a spec widget. I also dislike the use or pragmas. I will > continue learning it but I don't prefer it over Morphic for now. AFAIK > apart from Spec and Morphic there is no other choice. > > > Spec is not an alternative to Morphic, is a superset (a way to nicely > build widget components). > So apart from *Morphic*, you do not have any other choice :) > > > I also have hard time understanding Roassal and Athens. With Morphic its > hard at times to figure out whats going on but at least it took very little > time to understand the overall design. > > > Same here. None of them are replacements… is a framework for > visualisations (in the case of Roassal) and a framework for drawing (in > case of Athens). One is on top of Morphic and the other is below it (you > can do morphs that are drawn with Athens). > > > I don't have a problem with Pharo abandoning Morphic. Afterally you all > use Pharo far more than I do. I will continue learning Spec, Roassal and > Athens. But for me Morphic is the most beautiful Graphics API I have ever > worked with. > > > We are not moving out from Morphic any time soon. > Also, moving from an implementation of Morphic does not means we are going > to refuse his general design or all the cool experience we accumulated in > the time. > Think on morphic and block like with Battlestar Galactica from 1978 and > 2003: Same general design, but a complete “re-imagined” taking with us all > we learned in the mean time :) > > > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> On 11 Jun 2014, at 16:39, kilon alios <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> excellent news. I really believe in Morphic and I really like its general >> design. If you we can clean the mud I am sure we will discover quite a >> diamond underneath. Thanks. >> >> >> which general design? the pattern in which is based? that’s not enough to >> keep it :) >> Sorry but there is no easy/efficient way to clean it. >> The only way to clean Morphic is to reimplement it. >> Clean it is just too much work… and too many design decisions where made >> that time and patches made them obsolete or not correct. >> Not to talk about the mix of concepts (bah, the no existence of >> separation between them). >> >> Block is not a clean. Is a revamp. >> >> No offence intended to Morphic: no matter how good was at the beginning, >> *every* system evolves up to a point the effort required to maintain it is >> superior to the effort required to reimplement it (with all the experience >> as a superior step). >> (yeah, yeah… a lot of people will disagree. But time has proven me right… >> and will continue doing it :P) >> >> Esteban >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM, François Stephany < >> tulipe.mouta...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> \o/ >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Camille Teruel < >>> camille.ter...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 11 juin 2014, at 15:31, François Stephany <tulipe.mouta...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> What is bloc ? >>>> >>>> I've searched in the pharo-dev list but couldn't find it :/ >>>> >>>> >>>> A Morphic clean/revamp lead by Alain and Stef. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:26 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> looks so exciting... >>>>> >>>>> From: Alain Plantec <alain.plan...@univ-brest.fr> >>>>> Subject: Bloc news >>>>> Date: 11 Jun 2014 14:10:29 GMT+2 >>>>> To: Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> >>>>> Cc: Alain Plantec <alain.plan...@univ-brest.fr> >>>>> >>>>> Name: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.15 >>>>> Author: AlainPlantec >>>>> Time: 11 June 2014, 2:07:16.813171 pm >>>>> UUID: d58ae82e-b5dd-41d9-bc31-a48c3e9e5cf1 >>>>> Ancestors: Bloc-Core-AlainPlantec.14 >>>>> >>>>> - BlMorphs manage their submorphs with local coordinate. >>>>> - Drawing and drag&drop has been adapted to local coordinate >>>>> - Consequence: TransformationMorph should not be useful anymore >>>>> because each morph has its own transform (not only TransformationMorph). >>>>> Each morph uses its own transform to declare changed portions of its >>>>> bounds >>>>> and to draw its submorphs. >>>>> - The world is no more a special morph: >>>>> - the hand is owned by the space >>>>> - the canvas and the display/redisplay of morphs are space >>>>> responsibilities. >>>>> This open the door to several worlds per space. >>>>> >>>>> Now the current global redrawing mechanism efficiency is not obvious. >>>>> Next actions: >>>>> - try to localize as much as possible the redrawing of morphs, >>>>> - dig several Worlds for a space >>>>> - start to comment and write a separate documentation with the help of >>>>> Stephane :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > >
