On 17 Jun 2014, at 10:04, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> It’s hard for me to agree with you. Pharo’s compact syntax is one of main > features for me. Because in all other languages there was a time when I > encountered some unknown constructs even after a year of usage. In Pharo you > just have to learn syntax from postcard, and then if you want to know how > some thing woks you just read the source code. > > Maybe this is some special thing related to me. I am with you Yuriy and I disagree with Kilon: Pharo/Smalltalk syntax is really special, it is about as minimal as you can get for a messaging object system, without being too simple. It is also almost magically elegant, IMO. I can only think of Scheme being somewhat similar. Most dynamic/scripting style languages still have too much syntax in the name of convenience and too many special cases or weird semantics. Statically typed languages are off the scale in this regard. Yes, to work in any development environment, you need to learn how to use many libraries and frameworks, but this is independent of the core language. BTW, it would be even cooler if the postcard method would make real sense and actually do something, but that is a real challenge ;-) > On 17 Jun 2014, at 09:59, kilon alios <[email protected]> wrote: > >> personally I don't like this postcard , it looks too much like "snake oil >> marketing" to me. >> >> It creates the illusion that Pharo is much simpler than other programming >> languages as a programming language while nothing can be further from the >> truth. The idea here is to prove to the viewer that Pharo is based on a very >> simple recipe and that is of course true. But if we have to be honest is >> should come with a disclaimer for the potential users that Pharo is no blue >> pill and there tons of things outside this postcard you need to learn if you >> want to create the simplest Pharo application. I will be frank , as a >> language I dont find Pharo any simpler than let's say python , which I am >> more familiar with. And the fact that there is this simple recipe gave me >> zero benefits to me so far. Its a cool trick that may come handy down the >> line if I want to shape the language more to my needs, but I dont see doing >> this to a day by day basis. >> >> Now a "living coding postcard" stating the workflow of Pharo and >> demonstrating the power of the debugger is much more honest and frankly >> better marketing for Pharo. You show something to a person that will benefit >> his workflow on a day by day basis. >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> wrote: >> Now, who is creative enough to add “dynamic array” (one with curly braces) >> and temporaries in a block to the original thing: >> >> exampleWithNumber: x >> | y | >> true & false not & (nil isNil) ifFalse: [self halt]. >> y := self size + super size. >> #($a #a "a" 1 1.0) >> do: [ :each | >> Transcript show: (each class name); >> show: ' ']. >> ^x < y >> >> >> >> Uko >> >> On 16 Jun 2014, at 15:35, Oscar Nierstrasz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I got it from Stef, who always said it came originally from Ralph Johnson. >>> >>> http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?SmalltalkSyntaxInaPostcard >>> >>> Googling around finds various copies of this, but no original source. >>> >>> Oscar >>> >>> On 16 Jun 2014, at 10:58 , Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I guess it’s here: http://files.pharo.org/media/flyer-cheat-sheet.pdf >>>> >>>> I think that it would be interesting to put the syntax on a postcard. It >>>> can work as a proof of concept, some addition cheat-sheet for newcomers >>>> and also as some king of souvenir. >>>> >>>> Uko >>>> >>>> On 16 Jun 2014, at 10:36, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> you have the flyer of Damien (no idea where it is) but no real postcard. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> On 16/6/14 09:35, Yuriy Tymchuk wrote: >>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> we all are talking about the syntax fitting in a postcard, but was there >>>>>> any real postcard with Pharo syntax prototype? This would be really >>>>>> interesting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Uko >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >
