> On 26 Dec 2014, at 17:42, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: > > + 10000 > > Debugging the rendering loops of Athens was such an example. In Bloc I get > some race conditions with MC forked process... another fun one. > Let people decide!!! > > Doru I DO NOT WANT TO LEARN WHAT I DO NOT WANT TO LEARN! > I WANT to DECIDE WHEN. I control my agenda and my own schedule and my list is > huge.
OK, I understand, but how is this different from any other radical changes that we did ? When we introduced the Eye inspectors we did not offer two options at the same time (and I can give 10s of examples). So what is best, we all together use and make the best tools, or we all work with different tools ? > Stef >> Doru, >> >> I think your intention is a good one but slightly misplaced. I really like >> the idea of GTInspector. It surely is a great tool and maybe I'll start to >> build my own inspector on my kind of things. >> To me the difference is between "motivated to do" or "forced to do". Most of >> the time we are trying hard to solve our own problems. If in that progress >> other problems are forced upon us we get easily distracted and frustrated. >> The same goes for new tools. If I'm forced to use these it just means I have >> to deal with it first and only then I'm allowed to deal with my own problem. >> As it was in that special case the bug in nautilus and the new inspector >> made me shy away from developing something in 4.0 and now I'm back on 3.0. >> >> So I think the only possibility is to "offer" a new way of doing things and >> give people time to adjust. >> >> Norbert >> >>> Am 26.12.2014 um 13:18 schrieb Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think there must be a misunderstanding. >>> >>> There can be a good reason for having a basic inspector around, but I think >>> the reason is not because people cannot choose what to use. >>> >>> There is a toggle to enable/disable the GTInspector. But, even without it, >>> the main feature of the GTInspector is exactly to be extended the way >>> people want and not impose a fixed way. This is completely different from >>> what existed before. In fact, half a year ago there was no problem that >>> people could neither choose nor extend anything. In the meantime, we can >>> extend our workflows significantly. Adding the various flavors of browsing >>> objects is perhaps a couple of lines long and each of us can tweak it >>> because there is no higher entity that should decide anymore. >>> >>> What I cannot quite grasp is that while we pride ourselves with working on >>> a reflective language, when we have reflective tools, we seem to not be >>> able to take half an hour to build the tool that fits our needs. I am >>> still wondering what is needed to improve this. I think that it's a problem >>> of exercise or of communication, but it seems that just providing the >>> examples that I linked before is not enough and most people look at the >>> inspector still as a black box tool. I will try to work on a tutorial to >>> see if it gets better, but do you find the moldability proposition not >>> valuable or just unclear? >>> >>> But, as I said, there can still be a valid reason to enable a basic >>> inspector that relies on a minimal of libraries (so, definitely not the >>> Spec one) for the same reason we have an emergency debugger. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 11:43 AM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I will add basicInspect in Object so that we can get access to the old >>> inspector. >>> I like that people can choose their tools! >>> I mentioned that 20 times but people do not care apparently. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> Le 23/12/14 11:50, Norbert Hartl a écrit : >>> >>> Is there a way to get the old tools via shortcut? >>> >>> I started something new with pharo 4.0 today. I discovered a bug in >>> Nautilus where every rename or deletion of a method raises a debugger. I >>> tried finding the bug but struggled because to me the new inspector is >>> really confusing. If I "just" want to unfold a few levels of references to >>> get a glimpse of the structure the new tool prevents me from doing that. >>> There is just to much information in this window and too much happening to >>> me. >>> To me it looks like a power tool you need to get used to. So it is probably >>> not the best tool for simple tasks and people new to this environment might >>> be overwhelmed. At least I would like to be able to use the old tools. >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >> >
