Object Orientation seems to freak out most Haskell programmers.
They are opposed to it. They have never tried Smalltalk. They see OOP as bad practice in the languages they have seen it in and say it promotes chaotic program behaviour and unmaintainable software that is brittle and full of costly bugs. They have never tried Smalltalk and some are a bit bewildered when i say Smalltalk is usually very stable. i just wonder if functional state management would make Smalltalk development faster and less Chaotic and how you could marry OOP and functional and if you did then how would you do it how can the concepts of functional and OOP be combined is my question what are all the concepts and how can they be combined because i do think that perhaps Smalltalk development is slowed down and made more Chaotic and unmaintainable by mutable data in Objects so in order to correct this in my opinion the first step would be to create immutable Objects my Generator package i published for Pharo is perhaps an example of how immutable sequences can be done in Smalltalk but the basic idea is that you create new Objects that link into the pieces of old ones instead of mutating the old ones no instance variables can be rebound once they have been bound ok so this boggles the mind a bit but they swear by it in Haskell so what exactly are the Haskellers talking about? and can it be applied to Smalltalk to Smalltalk's benefit? On Monday, July 6, 2015, Kjell Godo <squeakl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for the detailed reply Andreas > > > > Are there any Smalltalk packages implementing > > Category Theory based > > functional programming constructs > > for function composition like > > functors , applicatives , monads , arrows , etc ? > > > > Do people have opinions about whether or not > > these plus immutable data structures would be good for managing state > > in Smalltalk like they do it in Haskell etc? i know that monads are not > built > > into Haskell but are implemented as addons via Haskell packages. > > My Haskell friend said all you need to do functional programming is > > first class functions > > which Smalltalk Block contexts almost are except they lack their own stack? > > if you wrap a Block in a Function Object do you then get the stack > > effect so you can essentially call the Block recursively? > > > > i have been wondering about taking a crack at implementing these > > in Smalltalk and i wonder if it would be > > theoretically possible > > to speed them up by inlining them via the Smalltalk compiler > > > Thank you > > > > On Saturday, November 8, 2014, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wackn...@gmx.de > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a.wackn...@gmx.de');>> wrote: > >> >> Am 07.11.2014 um 16:51 schrieb Kjell Godo <squeakl...@gmail.com>: >> >> This is off topic. >> >> I tried to post it as a top level thread but I have become unknown. >> >> Why do you expect that? Many people here are using Smalltalk for years. >> Just because you have been silent for some time doesn’t mean everybody >> will forget about you :) >> >> >> I don't know if you want this crap in here but I have decided not to wait >> for the >> >> postmaster to get back to me on the subject of becoming known. Feel free. >> >> >> >> >> >> ( Original-SUBJECT: "( picoVerse-:( what about state , is state >> really evil? ) )" ) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am a Smalltalker. >> >> But in the past few months i have been running with the Haskellers. >> >> The Haskellers hate state. >> >> This seemed strange at first because as a Smalltalker i love(d) state. >> State iswas my friend. >> >> 90% of my life as a Smalltalker is state wrangling. I am a state herder. >> >> >> The debugger is my staff I use to whack the state. And TestCase is my >> sheep dog. >> >> But to the Haskellers >> >> state is >> >> the evil trinity >> >> of >> >> satan the anti christ and the false prophet >> >> all rolled into one. >> >> State is the true dev incarnation of the total catastrophe of development >> Armageddon. >> >> Blood up to the bridles for hundreds of miles. Dogs and cats living >> together. Mass hysteria. >> >> They say. >> >> I'm not sure i quite get it yet but they keep preaching on this one point >> most of all. >> >> State is evil. >> >> You must keep all state in a Monad. As many methods/functions m as >> possible >> >> must be 100% dependent on the input parameters ONLY. >> >> No hidden instance variables affecting the return value of m are allowed. >> >> The only effect m can have is to return a value. >> >> If all this is true then m is pure. >> >> And pure is good. Pure is very good. And the wind says >> >> very. >> >> So i wonder if any of you fellow >> >> Smalltalkers >> >> have thought about this at all. >> >> First, there are no good definitions of what is an object oriented >> language and what is a functional language. >> Thus, languages like C++, C#, Java are being considered object oriented. >> But their object orientation is not the same like Smalltalk’s. >> The same problem exists in the functional language world: Some consider >> LISP being functional, some deny that. >> >> Second, for some years I am constantly seeking for „the best“ language to >> solve my problems in. Alas I wasn’t successful yet and don’t expect >> to be successful in the future. Every programming paradigm has its >> strengths and weaknesses when it comes to real world problems. >> So in my eyes it is best to know the different programming paradigms and >> its representative languages in order to be able to choose the >> best fitting language for your problem at hand. >> >> Third, there have been many attempts to create multi-paradigm languages >> (like C++, C#, Java, Scala, …). The idea behind is simple: combine >> the best characteristics. In my eyes all of them failed because what >> always have been created is Frankenstein’s monster. When you combine >> paradigms you will may get some advantages of all but sure you will get a >> lot of additional complexity. >> >> Fourth, it has been said many times before: What makes Smalltalk so nice >> is not only the language. It’s the whole system: the language, duck typing, >> the image (object world), the tools, the VM, the simplicity, the >> elegance, … And last but not least the communities around. >> >> Regards >> Andreas >> >> PS: If you are interested in functional programming and don’t like static >> typing you should have a look at Clojure. It has some nice ideas about >> how to deal with state concurrently. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Kjell E Godø >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> (((((((((( Maybe Smalltalk should be called Statewalk >> >> as in yak it up fuzz ball. )))))))))) >> >> >>
