I have removed the sender from the list.
The pharo board decided already last year (from the time when the mails that he
is answering now)
were written that these emails are just disturbing our work, with no positive
value whatsoever.
Marcus
> On 01 Aug 2015, at 16:29, Kjell Godo <squeakl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wackn...@gmx.de
> <mailto:a.wackn...@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
>> Am 07.11.2014 um 16:51 schrieb Kjell Godo <squeakl...@gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','squeakl...@gmail.com');>>:
>>
>> This is off topic.
>>
>> I tried to post it as a top level thread but I have become unknown.
> Why do you expect that? Many people here are using Smalltalk for years.
> Just because you have been silent for some time doesn’t mean everybody will
> forget about you :)
>
>>
>> I don't know if you want this crap in here but I have decided not to wait
>> for the
>>
>> postmaster to get back to me on the subject of becoming known. Feel free.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ( Original-SUBJECT: "( picoVerse-:( what about state , is state really
>> evil? ) )" )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am a Smalltalker.
>>
>> But in the past few months i have been running with the Haskellers.
>>
>> The Haskellers hate state.
>>
>> This seemed strange at first because as a Smalltalker i love(d) state.
>> State iswas my friend.
>>
>> 90% of my life as a Smalltalker is state wrangling. I am a state herder.
>>
>> The debugger is my staff I use to whack the state. And TestCase is my sheep
>> dog.
>>
>> But to the Haskellers
>>
>> state is
>>
>> the evil trinity
>>
>> of
>>
>> satan the anti christ and the false prophet
>>
>> all rolled into one.
>>
>> State is the true dev incarnation of the total catastrophe of development
>> Armageddon.
>>
>> Blood up to the bridles for hundreds of miles. Dogs and cats living
>> together. Mass hysteria.
>>
>> They say.
>>
>> I'm not sure i quite get it yet but they keep preaching on this one point
>> most of all.
>>
>> State is evil.
>>
>> You must keep all state in a Monad. As many methods/functions m as possible
>>
>> must be 100% dependent on the input parameters ONLY.
>>
>> No hidden instance variables affecting the return value of m are allowed.
>>
>> The only effect m can have is to return a value.
>>
>> If all this is true then m is pure.
>>
>> And pure is good. Pure is very good. And the wind says
>>
>> very.
>>
>> So i wonder if any of you fellow
>>
>> Smalltalkers
>>
>> have thought about this at all.
>
> First, there are no good definitions of what is an object oriented language
> and what is a functional language.
> Thus, languages like C++, C#, Java are being considered object oriented. But
> their object orientation is not the same like Smalltalk’s.
> The same problem exists in the functional language world: Some consider LISP
> being functional, some deny that.
>
> Second, for some years I am constantly seeking for „the best“ language to
> solve my problems in. Alas I wasn’t successful yet and don’t expect
> to be successful in the future. Every programming paradigm has its strengths
> and weaknesses when it comes to real world problems.
> So in my eyes it is best to know the different programming paradigms and its
> representative languages in order to be able to choose the
> best fitting language for your problem at hand.
>
> Third, there have been many attempts to create multi-paradigm languages (like
> C++, C#, Java, Scala, …). The idea behind is simple: combine
> the best characteristics. In my eyes all of them failed because what always
> have been created is Frankenstein’s monster. When you combine
> paradigms you will may get some advantages of all but sure you will get a lot
> of additional complexity.
>
> I had an idea
>
> BorgLisp
>
> where different dialects of Lisp
>
> coexist
>
> in a single language
>
> and these dialects can be
>
> combined
>
> as in the
>
> Cola and Maru languages
>
> developed by
>
> Alan Kay's institute .
>
> Hopefully this would satisfy your objection to multi paradigm languages
> because each dialect is pure in itself
> and can be combined with another dialect
> or left alone and used by itself .
>
> And there would be Lisp dialects made
> that are isomorphic to all the existing languages
> like C C++ C# Java Scala Clojure Prolog Haskell Lua
> CommonLisp Scheme Perl Smalltalk etc
>
> And all these Lisp dialects can be combined
> like in Cola but like ... ( haskell--
> ...AHaskellLispDialectExpression... ) ...
> which can have other dialects inside or be used in its seperate pureness
>
> and there is one or more functional OOP Macro systems
> and Haskell like category theories of composition
> across all the dialects
>
> image based or generating seperate small executables
>
> This kind of a manoeuvre is designed to kill off the original languages
> eventually
> by assimilation into the BorgLisp collective
>
> each isomorphic language dialect need not be as phabulous
> as its original inspiration as whatever it lacks can be gotten
> from one of the other dialects
> so not isomorphic but subset isomorphic
> or isomorphic to a subset
> of the original language
>
> these isomorphic dialects
> are designed like sirens
> to drive programmers of those languages mad with desire
> so they get ship wrecked
> on the rocks
> of their dialect in the BorgLisp pleasure dome
> never to return
>
> to what do you object to that
> kind of thing
>
> how can Smalltalk mix with anything else? that's oil and water?
>
> BorgLisp is image based
>
> but it can generate seperate executables
>
> it can generate itself
>
> using the Cola Maru bootstrapping process
>
> to what do you object?
>
> how should it be modified
>
>
> Fourth, it has been said many times before: What makes Smalltalk so nice is
> not only the language. It’s the whole system: the language, duck typing,
> the image (object world), the tools, the VM, the simplicity, the elegance, …
> And last but not least the communities around.
>
> Regards
> Andreas
>
> PS: If you are interested in functional programming and don’t like static
> typing you should have a look at Clojure. It has some nice ideas about
> how to deal with state concurrently.
>
>
>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kjell E Godø
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (((((((((( Maybe Smalltalk should be called Statewalk
>>
>> as in yak it up fuzz ball. ))))))))))
>>
>
