Ok my last attempt :(
When I look for something there are two cases
- most of the time I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW*********
is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT THE
FASTER WAY TO GET IT
=> no three clicks and strange navigation.
I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender)
I want that package
I want the references to this class (not the class and the refs
that class)
and I'm ready to learn
#N for reference
#n for senders
#m for implementors
Because they are the same.
#e for example like in the finder
- looking around and the system can propose me something
and I can navigate and think.
But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and all the
rest I do it with shortcuts.
I tried to help but I failed.
I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I
cannot use it otherwise and
nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient than a
shortcut in a workspace.
Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter
because to me this is not ready
and far less usable than it is supposed to be.
Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What
esteban did or what is in Squeak
is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me express my
needs.
So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people
really works and not
how Spotter should be usefull.
The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and sometimes
you get an implementor
May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but when is
the last time
you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. Or may
be with users
that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use?
And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa and
this was annoying.
Stef
I do not get why you cannot
- have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a
small vocabulary that can be extensible
and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce
cognitive load
and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching.
This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario.
I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed
queries are any different than we have now. When you are on the top of
Spotter, when you query, you get always the same processors being
executed. At first you will not know their names, and you will scroll.
And if you see them, you might remember them and reproduce afterwards.
It’s a discoverable learning process that you do not have to remember.
Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for.
Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this
system is not good for that because I'm thinking about
the metallica song I'm listening.
The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a category
search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the label start
with # like this (I committed this change):
Sorry but I do not get it.
We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So,
you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we did
not get to implement that one. This should solve the discoverability
problem even more. What do you think about that?
Why not
but just a ghost with
#n printOn: #m #N ....
would be a huge improvement
Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I could
not find it.
Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a
processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to
produce a solution with the current set of options.
I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary
Cmd+N
#N
Cmd+m
#m
Cmd+n
#n
I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark
"Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the time
only use it to open a class.
And this is something that he already had before."
I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and
So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it it
defeats its purpose.
Certainly.
You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only.
That is not really true :).
See my remark above.
So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is
important.
Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet that
is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally
working on this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but we
have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will announce it once we
have it working.
the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While the
divide and conquer is the solution for the first
scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire
system when I have one precise query.
But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with
possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play
(some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I
think we should not just say that we need something else before we
actually play with it a bit more.
I do not get it.
I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody succeeding to
show me how to find something that I cannot
find faster with a shortcut.
But more important the discoverability is important because there is
not even a help.
Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and
use my shortcuts.
As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not
care) but nothing
that brings me to the next level.
This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited
for us, too.
Add a button and an help text copied from your blog!
And you will have made a 100% documentation jump.
Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this
will be solved with
the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review)
All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover over
it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. What
is missing in this regard from your point of view?
I do not know
They do not cover what I want to do.
I do not care of setting
Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now that you
have an arrow to show more than the top 5
good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain.
I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time.
I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift
under the return because
before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift.
To me left shift is a NO WAY.
esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter.
Doru
Stef
--
www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com>
www.feenk.com
"Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
