On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:23 AM, stepharo <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Ok my last attempt :(
When I look for something there are two cases
- most of the time I
********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW*********
is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT
THE FASTER WAY TO GET IT
=> no three clicks and strange navigation.
I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the
sender)
I want that package
I want the references to this class (not the class and the
refs that class)
and I'm ready to learn
#N for reference
#n for senders
#m for implementors
Because they are the same.
After first typing the search string, could we be able to hit Alt-m to
filter for implementers. Then my muscle memory [1] is directly
applicable (and I'll be working like a ninja ;).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory
cheers -ben
#e for example like in the finder
- looking around and the system can propose me something
and I can navigate and think.
But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and
all the rest I do it with shortcuts.
I tried to help but I failed.
I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I
cannot use it otherwise and
nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient
than a shortcut in a workspace.
Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter
because to me this is not ready
and far less usable than it is supposed to be.
Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get.
What esteban did or what is in Squeak
is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me
express my needs.
So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people
really works and not
how Spotter should be usefull.
The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and
sometimes you get an implementor
May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but
when is the last time
you did a real study with users that were not already convinced.
Or may be with users
that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that
they use?
And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa
and this was annoying.
Stef
I do not get why you cannot
- have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create
a small vocabulary that can be extensible
and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce
cognitive load
and then a full search when you do not know what you are
searching.
This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario.
I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these
fixed queries are any different than we have now. When you are on
the top of Spotter, when you query, you get always the same
processors being executed. At first you will not know their
names, and you will scroll. And if you see them, you might
remember them and reproduce afterwards. It’s a discoverable
learning process that you do not have to remember.
Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm
looking for.
Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and
this system is not good for that because I'm thinking about
the metallica song I'm listening.
The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a
category search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make
the label start with # like this (I committed this change):
Sorry but I do not get it.
We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #.
So, you have a kind of a dropdown for the available categories,
but we did not get to implement that one. This should solve the
discoverability problem even more. What do you think about that?
Why not
but just a ghost with
#n printOn: #m #N ....
would be a huge improvement
Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I
could not find it.
Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with
a processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to
produce a solution with the current set of options.
I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary
Cmd+N
#N
Cmd+m
#m
Cmd+n
#n
I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark
"Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the
time only use it to open a class.
And this is something that he already had before."
I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and
So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use
it it defeats its purpose.
Certainly.
You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only.
That is not really true :).
See my remark above.
So making sure that the most used actions are really supported
is important.
Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet
that is reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still
literally working on this. I think we should be able to have a
solution, but we have to see if it is reasonable enough. We will
announce it once we have it working.
the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While
the divide and conquer is the solution for the first
scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire
system when I have one precise query.
But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with
possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to
play (some did) and to get concrete feedback and possible
solutions. I think we should not just say that we need something
else before we actually play with it a bit more.
I do not get it.
I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody
succeeding to show me how to find something that I cannot
find faster with a shortcut.
But more important the discoverability is important because
there is not even a help.
Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter
and use my shortcuts.
As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do
not care) but nothing
that brings me to the next level.
This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is
limited for us, too.
Add a button and an help text copied from your blog!
And you will have made a 100% documentation jump.
Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be
this will be solved with
the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review)
All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover
over it you get the command. And there are literally 5 such
actions. What is missing in this regard from your point of view?
I do not know
They do not cover what I want to do.
I do not care of setting
Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now
that you have an arrow to show more than the top 5
good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain.
I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time.
I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press
shift under the return because
before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift.
To me left shift is a NO WAY.
esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter.
Doru
Stef
--
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"Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."
