Hi, This is indeed a nice idea. So: - we write in the text field of Spotter “something” - press Cmd+n - we get in the text field of Spotter “something #implementors” ==> only implementors are shown
Quite nice. Doru > On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:23 AM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok my last attempt :( > > When I look for something there are two cases > > - most of the time I ********************KKKKNNNOOOOOOOWWWWWWW********* > is it clear? I know I know I know what I look for and I WANT THE FASTER > WAY TO GET IT > => no three clicks and strange navigation. > > I want the sender of this message (not the implementors the sender) > I want that package > I want the references to this class (not the class and the refs that > class) > and I'm ready to learn > #N for reference > #n for senders > #m for implementors > Because they are the same. > > After first typing the search string, could we be able to hit Alt-m to filter > for implementers. Then my muscle memory [1] is directly applicable (and I'll > be working like a ninja ;). > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory > > cheers -ben > > #e for example like in the finder > > > - looking around and the system can propose me something > and I can navigate and think. > > But this is ok I just use Spotter to open the class browser and all the rest > I do it with shortcuts. > I tried to help but I failed. > > I will present Spotter as the great tool to open browser because I cannot use > it otherwise and > nobody around me can show me on the spot something more efficient than a > shortcut in a workspace. > Or may be I will simply not spend energy doing a videos on Spotter because to > me this is not ready > and far less usable than it is supposed to be. > > Now to me Spotter is taking a lot of classes for the gain I get. What esteban > did or what is in Squeak > is working perfectly for me because Spotter does not let me express my needs. > So may be you have other needs but I would like to know how people really > works and not > how Spotter should be usefull. > > The video of dimitry shows that well: Just browse a class and sometimes you > get an implementor > May be you do not like my mail because they look aggressive but when is the > last time > you did a real study with users that were not already convinced. Or may be > with users > that loves just one tiny feature and not the one you think that they use? > > And BTW it hangs my images two times with 4.0 when I was in africa and this > was annoying. > Stef > > >>> I do not get why you cannot >>> - have a set of fixed most used queries and this will create a small >>> vocabulary that can be extensible >>> and it can be mapped to what we do with shortcuts = reduce cognitive load >>> and then a full search when you do not know what you are searching. >>> This is not exclusive and it works for the two scenario. >> >> I understand the intention, but I do not understand how these fixed queries >> are any different than we have now. When you are on the top of Spotter, when >> you query, you get always the same processors being executed. At first you >> will not know their names, and you will scroll. And if you see them, you >> might remember them and reproduce afterwards. It’s a discoverable learning >> process that you do not have to remember. > > Because with these wonderfull queries I do not get what I'm looking for. > Because the system is trying to guess what I have in my mind and this system > is not good for that because I'm thinking about > the metallica song I'm listening. > > >> The only part that is not discoverable is that # introduces a category >> search. Thinking loud, I just thought that we can make the label start with >> # like this (I committed this change): > > Sorry but I do not get it. > >> >> <Mail Attachment.png> >> >> We also thought of having completion as soon as someone type #. So, you have >> a kind of a dropdown for the available categories, but we did not get to >> implement that one. This should solve the discoverability problem even more. >> What do you think about that? > Why not > but just a ghost with > #n printOn: #m #N .... > would be a huge improvement > > Each time I used Spotter to look for something more than a class I could not > find it. > > > >> Regarding the shortcuts, we could associated such shortcuts with a >> processor, but I would first want to see if we cannot manage to produce a >> solution with the current set of options. > > I was not saying shortcuts and I was thinking the same vocabulary > > Cmd+N > #N > Cmd+m > #m > Cmd+n > #n >> >> >>> I was discussing with Luc and he made a fun but sad remark >>> "Since people do not understand well spotter they most of the time only >>> use it to open a class. >>> And this is something that he already had before." >>> I briefly looked at the Youtube video of Chloupis and >>> So you can have a generic super cool tool, if people do not use it it >>> defeats its purpose. >> >> Certainly. >> >> >>> You can be really happy because you go fast with it but you only. >> >> That is not really true :). > > See my remark above. >> >>> So making sure that the most used actions are really supported is important. >> >> Of course it is. For Senders we did not find a good solution yet that is >> reasonably fast and useful. Stefan and I are still literally working on >> this. I think we should be able to have a solution, but we have to see if it >> is reasonable enough. We will announce it once we have it working. > > the problem is that you want to solve everything at once. While the divide > and conquer is the solution for the first > scenario I mention. I do not need something that crawls the entire system > when I have one precise query. > > >> >> But, really, this tool more than anything allows one to play with >> possibilities in a couple of lines of code. We want people to play (some >> did) and to get concrete feedback and possible solutions. I think we should >> not just say that we need something else before we actually play with it a >> bit more. > I do not get it. > I never worked with me. And so far I did not see anybody succeeding to show > me how to find something that I cannot > find faster with a shortcut. > > > >>> But more important the discoverability is important because there is not >>> even a help. >>> Right now as a user I can only guess and often I close spotter and use my >>> shortcuts. >>> As a user I see something that ask me about network (and I do not care) but >>> nothing >>> that brings me to the next level. >> >> This is something we need to work on, but you know, time is limited for us, >> too. > > Add a button and an help text copied from your blog! > And you will have made a 100% documentation jump. >> >> >>> Most of the time the user forgets the key combination (may be this will be >>> solved with >>> the cool shortcut reminder we developed and is under review) >> >> All actions in spotter have a visible icon. All. And if you hover over it >> you get the command. And there are literally 5 such actions. What is missing >> in this regard from your point of view? > > I do not know > They do not cover what I want to do. > I do not care of setting > Most of the time I do not care about seeing all. I saw now that you have > an arrow to show more than the top 5 > good but again Cmd-shift > is not easy to type and give pain. > I do not understand why I should dive in most of the time. > > I realised that I could use Spotter when I saw that I can press shift under > the return because > before I got immediate pain when trying with the left shift. > To me left shift is a NO WAY. > esc (top left) would work but I did not have the time to hack Spotter. > >> >> Doru >> >> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Value is always contextual."
