Hi,
> On Jun 17, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Henrik Johansen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > #alt_meta ? > - Maps to alt on OSX, ctrl on Win/Linux. > - Can only bind either #meta or #alt_meta + key, or both must bind to same > action. > - Can only be applied to a very limited set of keys, (usually those employed > in navigation). > (here are *alot* of different keyboard layouts on Mac using alt + key to > generate crucial characters, allowing alt + key as shortcut in general is > bound to end in disaster sooner or later) Thanks for the input! Indeed, using Alt for Mac for anything else than text is not so nice. However, on Mac we could use Ctrl. To this end, we could introduce a secondaryMeta that maps like this: - Mac: Ctrl - Win: Alt - Linux: Alt What do you think? Doru > Cheers, > Henry > >> On 17 Jun 2016, at 2:35 , Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Nicolai, >> >> I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I need >> to step back a bit :). >> >> If I understand correctly, you are saying that: >> 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means that we >> should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. >> 2. defining the bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones >> in the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using >> #alt. >> >> Does this make sense? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not >>> specific to Spotter actions. >>> >>> On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and you can >>> use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a browser, an >>> editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter >>> because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. >>> Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for >>> selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because the >>> (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher >>> explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the KMDispatcher >>> framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, otherwise you won't >>> be able to use dive in/out in spotter. >>> (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on the >>> textfield instead of the spotter morph). >>> >>> >>> The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in general. >>> >>> exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external tools >>> would be great. >>> >>> Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. >>> >>> Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping >>> implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher >>> registration. But I can only continue with this >>> if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either ctrl+arrow or >>> alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) >>> >>> All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not use >>> explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a portable >>> modifier, we should only use #meta. >>> >>> At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: >>> - Mac: Command >>> - Win: Control >>> - Linus: Control >>> >>> This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not conflict with >>> #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination with #meta. >>> >>> You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like >>> $g alt >>> is never recognized. You have to define it >>> $g command >>> to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). >>> >>> >>> >>> For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On Win/Linux, >>> Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, Cmd+Right/Left >>> moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using #meta for text >>> navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should use #ctrl >>> instead. >>> >>> This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for Spotter >>> now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in working on >>> revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[email protected]>: >>>> We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was decided to >>>> use meta everywhere. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Andrei >>>> >>>> >>>> If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, but this >>>> is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would use >>>> meta as shortcut modifier. >>>> >>>> What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[email protected]>: >>>> During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use "meta" >>>> instead of cmd. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Andrei >>>> >>>> Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta >>>> >>>> ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to next/previous >>>> word. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" >>>> <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>> IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is meta+right(+shift). Only >>>>> the tooltip was changed to display the system specific key instead of >>>>> “cmd” so for Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. >>>> >>>> >>>> No, it changed >>>> >>>> In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) right/shift right >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Henrik >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>>> Nicolai Hess >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM >>>>> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from >>>>> >>>>> cmd+right >>>>> >>>>> cmd+shift+right >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> ctrl+right >>>>> ctrl+shift+right >>>>> >>>>> I know there were some discussions about this and that the behavior >>>>> changed some >>>>> >>>>> time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> nicolai >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, >>> you will end up with a messy haircut." >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Quality cannot be an afterthought." >> >> > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com “Live like you mean it."
