On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > >> On Jun 17, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Henrik Johansen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> #alt_meta ? >> - Maps to alt on OSX, ctrl on Win/Linux. >> - Can only bind either #meta or #alt_meta + key, or both must bind to same >> action. >> - Can only be applied to a very limited set of keys, (usually those employed >> in navigation). >> (here are *alot* of different keyboard layouts on Mac using alt + key to >> generate crucial characters, allowing alt + key as shortcut in general is >> bound to end in disaster sooner or later) > > Thanks for the input! > > Indeed, using Alt for Mac for anything else than text is not so nice. > However, on Mac we could use Ctrl. To this end, we could introduce a > secondaryMeta that maps like this: > - Mac: Ctrl > - Win: Alt > - Linux: Alt > > What do you think?
I like this, to further minimise hard coding of alt, & ctrl. Yet there are probably a small number of shortcuts with cross platform conflicts where hardcoded values are still required, and for those it even be useful to hardcode AltException & CtrlException rather than Alt & Ctrl - to make this clear to anyone using the system code as an example - but maybe that would be taking it too far. cheers - > > Doru > > >> Cheers, >> Henry >> >>> On 17 Jun 2016, at 2:35 , Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nicolai, >>> >>> I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I need >>> to step back a bit :). >>> >>> If I understand correctly, you are saying that: >>> 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means that we >>> should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. >>> 2. defining the bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the >>> ones in the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about >>> using #alt. >>> >>> Does this make sense? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[email protected]>: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not >>>> specific to Spotter actions. >>>> >>>> On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and you >>>> can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a browser, >>>> an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter >>>> because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. >>>> Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for >>>> selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because >>>> the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher >>>> explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the KMDispatcher >>>> framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, otherwise you won't >>>> be able to use dive in/out in spotter. >>>> (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on the >>>> textfield instead of the spotter morph). >>>> >>>> >>>> The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in >>>> general. >>>> >>>> exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external tools >>>> would be great. >>>> >>>> Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. >>>> >>>> Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping >>>> implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher >>>> registration. But I can only continue with this >>>> if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either ctrl+arrow or >>>> alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) >>>> >>>> All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not use >>>> explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a portable >>>> modifier, we should only use #meta. >>>> >>>> At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: >>>> - Mac: Command >>>> - Win: Control >>>> - Linus: Control >>>> >>>> This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not conflict >>>> with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination with >>>> #meta. >>>> >>>> You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like >>>> $g alt >>>> is never recognized. You have to define it >>>> $g command >>>> to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On Win/Linux, >>>> Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, Cmd+Right/Left >>>> moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using #meta for text >>>> navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should use #ctrl >>>> instead. >>>> >>>> This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for Spotter >>>> now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in working on >>>> revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[email protected]>: >>>>> We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was decided to >>>>> use meta everywhere. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Andrei >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, but this >>>>> is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would use >>>>> meta as shortcut modifier. >>>>> >>>>> What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[email protected]>: >>>>> During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use "meta" >>>>> instead of cmd. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Andrei >>>>> >>>>> Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta >>>>> >>>>> ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to >>>>> next/previous word. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>> Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" >>>>> <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is meta+right(+shift). Only >>>>>> the tooltip was changed to display the system specific key instead of >>>>>> “cmd” so for Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, it changed >>>>> >>>>> In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) right/shift right >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Henrik >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Pharo-dev [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>>>> Nicolai Hess >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM >>>>>> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from >>>>>> >>>>>> cmd+right >>>>>> >>>>>> cmd+shift+right >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> ctrl+right >>>>>> ctrl+shift+right >>>>>> >>>>>> I know there were some discussions about this and that the behavior >>>>>> changed some >>>>>> >>>>>> time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> nicolai >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, >>>> you will end up with a messy haircut." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "Quality cannot be an afterthought." >>> >>> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > “Live like you mean it." > >
