Hi, I find this discussion quite entertaining.
Just to clarify: this was an update of the current status. We do not ask you to do anything. If you do choose to invest, please do so knowing that it is very early stage and we will move fast. We happily take your input into account, but please let’s get specific. For example, if you want to help us write documentation, ask concrete questions that you might have. Cheers, Doru > On Jun 21, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am not the kind of guy to tell other people what is acceptable and what is > not > > Actually its perfectly acceptable because its your code and your entitled to > do whatever you want with it. > > You ask me how many open source and even commercial projects there are out > there that have partial or bad documentation. I will say the vast majority. > > However Tudor said that feedback is very important for the team and I am > willing to assume here that they would not complain if more joined their > effort to further speed up the replacement of Morphic with Bloc. > > People cannot contribute or provide feedback to something they dont > understand. > > Its a high standard to write a few lines per class and spend no more than 20 > seconds when the benefits in doing so will be massive ? > > Sorry but I dont agree, writting class comments is super simple and super > fast there are no excuses. And no it does not matter if your library is 1 > billion methods. > > Seriously you think that anyone will actually be motivated when you end up > with 1 00 classes to write comments for it ? This exactly why documentation > always suffer because you live it last and it looks like a mountain to climb. > > One of the best quotes I have read is the following > > "Documentation is not mandatory by itself, its mandatory only when you want > your project to succeed" > > But if the majority of pharo users agree with your opinion that writing code > is more important than documenting it, so be it, I will have to live with > that. > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 11:46 AM Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote: > You are right, code without comments is not acceptable. > > But, but. > > How many serious, non-trivial, public code bases consisting of 10s or 100s of > classes and 1000s or 10000s of methods have you, or anyone else giving > remarks, written and FULLY documented according to those high standards ? > > I prefer for people to actually write code and hope that they will eventually > document it all. > > > On 21 Jun 2016, at 10:22, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > One day I will find out why developers hate documentation so much , or at > > least why they think features and code is more important than its > > documentation. > > > > In the mean time, personally I wont give feedback to something that I have > > to waste my time reading code because spending 10 seconds per class is a > > second or third priority for you. > > > > No examples are not enough, actually I take class comments over examples > > any day. > > > > Wish you good luck in your effort and thank you for trying to make Pharo > > better , I may be annoyed with the Pharo documentation problem, but that > > does not mean I dont appreciate the efforts to improve Pharo. > > > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 11:11 AM Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Clement, > > > > Thanks for looking at it. > > > > Indeed, there aren’t many comments. A large part of the engine got > > rewritten twice over the last months, and many of the previous comments > > were no longer up to date. > > > > And no, the policy is not to not write comments :), but right now the > > priority is on building examples. which you will find in the > > Bloc-Core-Examples classes and their subclasses. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > > > > On Jun 21, 2016, at 9:39 AM, Clément Bera <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Doru, > > > > > > I downloaded the image, opened Nautilus, clicked on the package named > > > 'Bloc-Core' and all the classes I can see have no class comments (See > > > screenshot below). Is there a 'No class comment' policy in Bloc ? Or > > > maybe the top classes shown are just non representative of the class > > > comments of the overall framework. > > > > > > <Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 9.33.31 AM.png> > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Here is a brief update on the status of Bloc. > > > > > > Several of us came together to form a team and work to see Bloc in Pharo > > > 6 at least as a preview. The team communication happens via Slack in a > > > dedicated team, and the goal is to have regular progress/feedback > > > communication on this mailing list. > > > > > > Just because we have a dedicated team does not mean that your feedback is > > > important. In fact, over the last months, Bloc was redesigned again to > > > include the feedback we got here. So, now we have: > > > - Element is responsible for drawing (no more shape) > > > - Interaction area and clipping area are now distinct > > > > > > You can find the current build on top of Pharo 6 here: > > > https://ci.inria.fr/moose/job/bloc/PHARO=alpha,VERSION=development,VM=vmLatest/ > > > > > > The current team focus goes like this: > > > - Alain is looking at events, > > > - Glenn is playing with creating new elements in Bloc and refactoring the > > > way we can manage , > > > - Alex (Syrel) and Esteban are working on the backend to make rendering > > > faster, > > > - Doru is pretending to do something useful. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "What we can governs what we wish." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Presenting is storytelling." > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."
