On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 2016-07-22 16:24 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopol...@gmail.com>: > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianop...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Pavel, >>> >>> Congrats for your hard work! You know me well, so don't take my next >>> question as negative. >>> You have been working in minimal images since years. Guille has also >>> done quite some work, and many other people as well. >>> My question is.... have we decreased the effort to keep it working as >>> Pharo evolves? Previously, there were always problems with the >>> dependencies: a single commit to Pharo would add or break a dependency and >>> so we cannot bootstrap anymore. In other words...there was still a lot of >>> human action needed to check and fix dependencies. Is this still the case? >>> >> >> Complex questions requires complex answers :). It's not a yes, neither a >> no. >> >> - We have automatized the dependency analyses >> - We added Lint rules that ensure that no new dependencies are added to >> the kernel because of an integration >> - We will be adding soon enough more tools to automatically validate and >> ensure the health of the bootstrap, and to detect possible problems. >> >> Buuut, >> >> - Lint rules can (and sometimes are) ignored >> - Not everybody is aware of how to maintain dependencies or even they do >> not know they should care about it >> >> So the human factor is still of big importance (and risk), and educating >> people is harder than machines ^^ >> > > I must say that current need of human work required for proper reloading > of all Pharo packages is too high. It can be better only as soon as the > bootstrapping will be part of our development/release process. > Exactly!!! Totally agree. And..what are the plans of getting the bootstrapping as part of the development and release process? I am sure it is on the roadmap. > > On the other hand, dependency problems are now quite rare and are very > rare in the kernel packages. > > That's very good to hear! > -- Pavel > > >> >> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Pavel Krivanek < >>> pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-07-22 15:22 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com>: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Pavel Krivanek >>>>> <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Hi, >>>>> > >>>>> > as you maybe know, we are working on Pharo image bootstrap - the >>>>> process >>>>> > that can generate an image from source codes and initialize it >>>>> correctly. >>>>> > Because of practical reasons we do not bootstrap the standard image >>>>> at once >>>>> > but we are trying to bootstrap a small headless kernel image and >>>>> then load >>>>> > the rest of the system into it. >>>>> > >>>>> > The good news is that we are successful in our effor. We are already >>>>> able to >>>>> > produce well usable images as you can test here: >>>>> >>>>> Great to hear of your continuing progress. >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > https://goo.gl/fn1VbP >>>>> > >>>>> > From the Pharo/Squeak point of view this image is very special >>>>> because it >>>>> > doesn't contain any object inherited from 70's. Pharo lost its >>>>> umbilical >>>>> > cord. >>>>> >>>>> Does this mean you are starting with a zero byte file and adding nil, >>>>> true, false, etc...? >>>>> Or what is the size of the image you start with? >>>>> >>>> >>>> No, we are not generating image file directly. We use special VM >>>> simulator and then save its object memory. >>>> Our bootstrapped image has about 5MB now (in Spur format). >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> cheers -ben >>>>> >>>>> > >>>>> > Notice that the initial display width is too narrow and and we still >>>>> need a >>>>> > lot of work on the building process, but In the next weeks and >>>>> months it >>>>> > will change a lot the Pharo development - especially as soon as it >>>>> will be >>>>> > combined with Git support. >>>>> > >>>>> > Cheers, >>>>> > -- Pavel >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >> >> > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
