On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Guillermo Polito < guillermopol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianop...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Pavel, >> >> Congrats for your hard work! You know me well, so don't take my next >> question as negative. >> You have been working in minimal images since years. Guille has also done >> quite some work, and many other people as well. >> My question is.... have we decreased the effort to keep it working as >> Pharo evolves? Previously, there were always problems with the >> dependencies: a single commit to Pharo would add or break a dependency and >> so we cannot bootstrap anymore. In other words...there was still a lot of >> human action needed to check and fix dependencies. Is this still the case? >> > > Complex questions requires complex answers :). It's not a yes, neither a > no. > > - We have automatized the dependency analyses > - We added Lint rules that ensure that no new dependencies are added to > the kernel because of an integration > - We will be adding soon enough more tools to automatically validate and > ensure the health of the bootstrap, and to detect possible problems. > > That is all very nice! It really makes sense. The sooner we can detect a problem (like a new dependency), the better. > Buuut, > > - Lint rules can (and sometimes are) ignored > - Not everybody is aware of how to maintain dependencies or even they do > not know they should care about it > > So the human factor is still of big importance (and risk), and educating > people is harder than machines ^^ > > Sure. But it indeed looks better than it was before. Thank you guys. > >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Pavel Krivanek < >> pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2016-07-22 15:22 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com>: >>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Pavel Krivanek >>>> <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > Hi, >>>> > >>>> > as you maybe know, we are working on Pharo image bootstrap - the >>>> process >>>> > that can generate an image from source codes and initialize it >>>> correctly. >>>> > Because of practical reasons we do not bootstrap the standard image >>>> at once >>>> > but we are trying to bootstrap a small headless kernel image and then >>>> load >>>> > the rest of the system into it. >>>> > >>>> > The good news is that we are successful in our effor. We are already >>>> able to >>>> > produce well usable images as you can test here: >>>> >>>> Great to hear of your continuing progress. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > https://goo.gl/fn1VbP >>>> > >>>> > From the Pharo/Squeak point of view this image is very special >>>> because it >>>> > doesn't contain any object inherited from 70's. Pharo lost its >>>> umbilical >>>> > cord. >>>> >>>> Does this mean you are starting with a zero byte file and adding nil, >>>> true, false, etc...? >>>> Or what is the size of the image you start with? >>>> >>> >>> No, we are not generating image file directly. We use special VM >>> simulator and then save its object memory. >>> Our bootstrapped image has about 5MB now (in Spur format). >>> >>> >>>> >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>>> > >>>> > Notice that the initial display width is too narrow and and we still >>>> need a >>>> > lot of work on the building process, but In the next weeks and months >>>> it >>>> > will change a lot the Pharo development - especially as soon as it >>>> will be >>>> > combined with Git support. >>>> > >>>> > Cheers, >>>> > -- Pavel >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
