Hey! This is great news! I am anxious to work with you for integrating git and bootstrap.
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Pavel Krivanek <[email protected]> wrote: > > > 2016-07-22 16:42 GMT+02:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <[email protected]>: > >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Pavel Krivanek < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2016-07-22 16:24 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Pavel, >>>>> >>>>> Congrats for your hard work! You know me well, so don't take my next >>>>> question as negative. >>>>> You have been working in minimal images since years. Guille has also >>>>> done quite some work, and many other people as well. >>>>> My question is.... have we decreased the effort to keep it working as >>>>> Pharo evolves? Previously, there were always problems with the >>>>> dependencies: a single commit to Pharo would add or break a dependency and >>>>> so we cannot bootstrap anymore. In other words...there was still a lot of >>>>> human action needed to check and fix dependencies. Is this still the case? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Complex questions requires complex answers :). It's not a yes, neither >>>> a no. >>>> >>>> - We have automatized the dependency analyses >>>> - We added Lint rules that ensure that no new dependencies are added to >>>> the kernel because of an integration >>>> - We will be adding soon enough more tools to automatically validate >>>> and ensure the health of the bootstrap, and to detect possible problems. >>>> >>>> Buuut, >>>> >>>> - Lint rules can (and sometimes are) ignored >>>> - Not everybody is aware of how to maintain dependencies or even they >>>> do not know they should care about it >>>> >>>> So the human factor is still of big importance (and risk), and >>>> educating people is harder than machines ^^ >>>> >>> >>> I must say that current need of human work required for proper reloading >>> of all Pharo packages is too high. It can be better only as soon as the >>> bootstrapping will be part of our development/release process. >>> >> >> Exactly!!! Totally agree. And..what are the plans of getting the >> bootstrapping as part of the development and release process? I am sure it >> is on the roadmap. >> > > Simply as soon as possible :-) I will work on preparation of it in the > next weeks. > > -- Pavel > > >> >> >>> >>> On the other hand, dependency problems are now quite rare and are very >>> rare in the kernel packages. >>> >>> >> That's very good to hear! >> >> >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Pavel Krivanek < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2016-07-22 15:22 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Pavel Krivanek >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > Hi, >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > as you maybe know, we are working on Pharo image bootstrap - the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> > that can generate an image from source codes and initialize it >>>>>>> correctly. >>>>>>> > Because of practical reasons we do not bootstrap the standard >>>>>>> image at once >>>>>>> > but we are trying to bootstrap a small headless kernel image and >>>>>>> then load >>>>>>> > the rest of the system into it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The good news is that we are successful in our effor. We are >>>>>>> already able to >>>>>>> > produce well usable images as you can test here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great to hear of your continuing progress. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > https://goo.gl/fn1VbP >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > From the Pharo/Squeak point of view this image is very special >>>>>>> because it >>>>>>> > doesn't contain any object inherited from 70's. Pharo lost its >>>>>>> umbilical >>>>>>> > cord. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this mean you are starting with a zero byte file and adding nil, >>>>>>> true, false, etc...? >>>>>>> Or what is the size of the image you start with? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, we are not generating image file directly. We use special VM >>>>>> simulator and then save its object memory. >>>>>> Our bootstrapped image has about 5MB now (in Spur format). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers -ben >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Notice that the initial display width is too narrow and and we >>>>>>> still need a >>>>>>> > lot of work on the building process, but In the next weeks and >>>>>>> months it >>>>>>> > will change a lot the Pharo development - especially as soon as it >>>>>>> will be >>>>>>> > combined with Git support. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>>> > -- Pavel >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > >
