Yes we talk about something like that with Clément some months ago. Envoyé de mon iPhone
> Le 25 déc. 2017 à 20:29, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> a écrit : > > >> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:18 PM Torsten Bergmann <[email protected]> wrote: >> A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt >> for Pharo: >> >> http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/ >> >> Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. >> That version >> only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.". >> >> Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic >> legacy) >> is still too shaky are in Pharo. >> >> But I guess the order will be/needs to be: >> >> - good and stable graphics framework (maybe solved with Bloc) >> - good and stable standardized widget set (maybe solved with Brick) >> - then place a UI builder on top of it >> >> Bye > > Yeap that's the ideology about GUI designers , which is why so few IDE's have > them. It's like the man waiting for the perfect woman to marry, ending up all > alone and miserable. > > As a designer myself I cannot follow easily this ideology. Actually I cannot > follow it at all. > > I see it the exact opposite way, if you don't have a good GUI designer , your > ability to provide a stable and powerful GUI API will be limited because less > people will use it. > > The most stable and powerful GUI api I ever used was VCL , the standard > library of Delphi and surprise, surprise it has a GUI designer. The most > powerful I used so far. > > Open source wise QT dominates , surprise , surprise it has a very powerful > GUI designer. > > On Windows you have VS studio GUI designer on MacOS and iOS the XCode GUI > Designer and so forth. > > There a ton of GUI APIs out there that almost none uses, is it because they > are not stable ? > > Well ... *cough* Windows *cough* ... sure. > > Making GUIs via code, is not as much fun, its slower and ends up being also > less flexible as you can easily lose track of what you intend to do trying to > understand the internals of a GUI API. Not fun at all. Especially if you > experienced the horrors of MFC. > > But I am realistic , don't expect a GUI designer any time soon in Pharo. They > are very hard to make and coders being allergic to GUIs does not help > motivate to make one. > > I am ok with just a modular image format. > > Also I drink my own poison. I have made my own GUI API in Python with OpenGL > (used from inside Blender for an application I am developing) very loosely > inspired by some things I liked about Morphic. The more complex it becomes > the more I feel the need to create a designer that will handle the boring > stuff for me. > > For now I use the excellent excuse you provide of stability and inability to > promise the structure of the GUI API in the future. But its an excuse with an > expiration date. Making the GUI I have in my head using plain code , without > a GUI designer, is a nightmare that is highly unlikely I will let myself > experience. > > On the other hand when one makes his own GUI API the good news is that he can > make it fits well in the workflow of a GUI designer. This way instead of > trying to make the Designer according to the API , I make the API according > to the designer. > > But the good news is that it has helped me realize the amount work needed to > put in GUI API to become really useful. Fortunately making API to find only > my needs has made things far easier and far smaller. I cannot imagine making > something like Bloc and keeping my sanity. This way the next time I complain > about a GUI API, I will have a whole different level of respect for the > developers behind it.
