So...I keep the proposal as it first version or do I change something ? please let me know as soon as possible
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Stan Shepherd <[email protected]>wrote: > > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > 2010/3/11 Юрий Мироненко <[email protected]> > > > >> > "...to show the rest of the world what kind of things can be done in > >> Smalltalk nowadays" > >> > >> Yes. I really hate strange situation, when people "likes" smalltalk. > >> Sometimes they even make some cryptic tools for smalltalk. But, when > some > >> end-user application needed, they don't choose smalltalk for it. Even if > >> they have a choice. Don't know about ESUG, but in RSUG (Russian > Smalltalk > >> Users Group) it's a common situation. > >> > >> Generally, I hate the situation, when it's "cool" to make system tools, > >> tools for developing, tools for tools for developing, fremeworks, > >> sometimes > >> really very cool and usefull...but somewhy it's "not cool" to use all > >> this > >> staff to make real applications to solve real problems. What all this > >> cool > >> stuff for then, huh? > >> > >> > The idea is to present potential newcomers to Smalltalk with a viable > >> stack that could be picked up as is, to give a > >> > starting point for developing web applications. > >> > >> I working for SmallPOS (http://squeaksource.com/SmallPOS.html) project > >> for > >> some time. And it's very close to what you talking about. Even more, it > >> tends to be real application, with real shop using it for trading. I > made > >> it > >> opensource for exactly same reason - to show possibilities, to give an > >> example can be used to learn, to give a starting point to not start new > >> application from scratch and finally - fight this strange situation with > >> rarely practical application of smalltalk. > >> > >> > edit > >> > copy > >> > search > >> > display in list > >> > display in report > >> > a stuff or a list of stuff. > >> > >> Yes, all this and lot of details. I trying to use > >> Magritte+GLORP+Seaside+Scriptaculous enviroment. It was a good (and > >> unexpectedly painfull) practical experience. So, you can find: > >> - generating of lists and tree-like lists from magritte descriptions > >> - list filters and list fast searches based on magritte descriports, too > >> - custom magritte descriptors, components and memento, custom magritte > >> renderers and, generally, how to use Magritte descriptions for something > >> new, not-yet-implemented > >> - using both full-generated, full-customized and _partially-customized_ > >> (you don't touch component's structure, and you uses magrittes field > >> editors, but you can fully control when they situated) web-forms > >> - using web-forms with table parts inside them > >> - nested editing (to add Order you need add person, to add person, you > >> need > >> to add City it lives at, to add a City you need to add a Country and so > >> on) > >> - using GLORP with sometimes not-trivial mappings (not VERY untrivial > I'm > >> sorry) > >> - using (custom magritte) mementos to fight the absence of nested > >> UnitOfWorks in GLORP, so nested editing becomes possible > >> - using AJAX to make interactive - and painless - webforms. You just > >> added > >> list of affected fields in metadescriptor of given field - and they will > >> be > >> updated via AJAX when form will be generated. > >> - using KomHttpServer to host files like icons and CSS-styles. > >> > >> I beleive this list will be expanded 'till GSoC will begins. So, maybe > it > >> will help to solve problem > >> > >> > The only thing I am concerned a bit is the scope of the project. It > >> seems > >> quite big. > >> > >> Maybe using SmallPOS as a basis will make things easier and faster, and > >> avoid some already-made efforts. Well, SmallPOS is not "web shop", it's > >> POS, > >> but it should be quite posible - and even not too hard - to convert it > >> into > >> webshop. I especially tried to keep it as modular as possible. I want > to > >> try to use another persistence level and another GUI one day. > >> > >> Another problem necessary to solve is: I try to keep code more or less > >> clean, but due to time restrictins I can't totally avoid fast dirty > >> tricks. > >> I just trying to mark them for future fixes :) > >> > >> Next, I absolutely do not worried about internationalisation. Taking > into > >> account SmallPOS practically (maybe even totally) have no hardcoded > >> labels > >> (they all comes from magritte descriptors or from domain-specific > >> webforms) > >> it's not a conceptual problem, but it makes fast education virtually > >> impossible for non-russians. > >> > >> Finaly, PayPal prohibits receiving money for russian users, so I can't > >> make > >> a paypal connector for e-business...I just can't test it ;) > >> > >> So there are still a lot of work for a student, but, utilising ready > >> results it may make things much easier - or, as an option, it make > >> possible > >> to reach much more shining results with great efforts ;) > >> > > > > Hi Юрий Мироненко ( is that Tallman? - I got your reply third hand via > different lists ;) ) > > I wasn't aware of SmallPOS, and indeed it sounds like it could be a great > starting point for such a project. I'll try to load it up soon; are there > any screenshots etc available? > > I'm glad you've used Magritte for it. Could this act as an abstraction > layer > for the GUI side? I ask because there seems more action in JQueryUI than > Scriptaculous in the Seaside world. It would be perfect if the reference > application could be GUI agnostic. Similar argument for persistence > back-end. > > re internationalisation, & putting on a marketing hat for a moment, the > name > sounds a lot like the fatal disease smallpox. If you're willing to consider > rebranding, that could be worth considering. It could be the sort of thing > people only notice once your application becomes well known, and then > rebranding is difficult. > > Also re internationalisation, it could be a nice to have feature that > people > could provide translations for a given phrase in their own language, from > within the application. Not hard to do I think, but perhaps would need to > be > moderated. > > Thanks for the suggestion, and for supporting the idea, ...Stan > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n4.nabble.com/Google-Summer-Of-Code-2010-news-tp1582769p1588990.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >
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