On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <[email protected]>wrote:

>
> This is fun!  Thanks for the discussion...
>
>
> csrabak wrote:
> >
> > Sean, once you really get to metal subtleties and other nuances on the
> > language and syntax appear to bug your team.  Have you ever heard of
> > John McSweeney's "Smalltalk ‘Traps’" piece¹?
> >
> [ sean isOnChair ] whileTrue: [ sean laugh ].
>

7 pages! (actually 6.5 - with embedded images)  That actually proves my
> point vs. entire textbooks ;-)  Not to mention that:
>

Just to ilustrate =)

http://www.amazon.com/Java-Pitfalls-Time-Saving-Solutions-Workarounds/dp/0471361747
http://www.amazon.com/Java-TM-Puzzlers-Pitfalls-Corner/dp/032133678X/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291752617&sr=1-4

Cheers,
Francisco



> * the first page and a half's examples are trivial and not exactly "traps"
> (the fact that self is implicitly returned)
> * the "10 + (10 negated) negated" "trap" executes intuitively and correctly
> in Squeak
> * the example of changing a loop while iterating with do: seems like C++
> code translated literally into Smalltalk
> * the last 1.5 pages are totally contrived (and use global variables which
> are discouraged anyway; I haven't had to use one yet) - yes, if you *want*
> to screw up the system, you can:
>    #right
>        basicAt: 1 put: 119;
>        basicAt: 2 put: 114;
>        basicAt: 3 put: 111;
>        basicAt: 4 put: 110;
>        basicAt: 5 put: 103.
>    #right
> An equivalent argument is: if you hit your laptop repeatedly with a bat, it
> will not work regardless of what programming language you were using, so
> you
> might as well pick any
>
>
> csrabak wrote:
> >
> > Well, comparing C, even C++ which normally hasn't automatic garbage
> > collection, is somewhat stretching the argument...
> >
> Well, that's just the point, isn't it?  We're talking about language
> popularity and those are #2 and #3 on the TIOBE index.
>
>
> csrabak wrote:
> >
> > even with those
> > "idiosyncrasies" as soon the size of the application grows up, these
> > perks of Smalltalk quickly become less noticeable
> >
> I've been using Smalltalk for less than a year, but I'm already more
> productive by far than in C, C++, or even Ruby, and haven't hit that limit
> writing software for small businesses.  If there is a size at which the
> benefit lessens, isn't it more likely caused by poor design/devs or any
> number of factors (don't most large projects fail)?  It can't be the same
> or
> worse to use a poor library in a dynamic live environment.  I recently
> wrote
> a simple Ruby bridge and found it liberating to deal with the library in
> the
> Smalltalk tools rather than in Ruby's code/run cycle.
>
>
> csrabak wrote:
> >
> > Smalltalk... programmers attention to avoid the attribution of wrong
> > objects to instance variables as there is no type checking...
> >
> I have never encountered this and I've often heard it said by dynamic
> language experts to be mostly static language paranoia.  What is the
> evidence that this becomes a severe problem in real-life dynamic systems?
>
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Popularity-or-not-of-smalltalk-tp3073990p3076885.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>

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