Before I read the other related posts, I can MAYBE answer this. Columbia succeded in recording a wide (frequency) range microgroove disc for 33 1/3 speed on a soft material that was beginning to appear on 78 RPM records (Remember RCA's "Red Seal Deluxe" records?). I'd say that Dr. Goldmark just used the best of all the former techniques and put them together on one new disc.
Certainly, Edison went to a microgroove cut, because it made sense. He should have used an electric motor so he would be able to have the 33 1/3 speed for a full playing time. But Edison had an aversion to electric notors in phonographs, though he could have had them; others did. Victor was wise enopugh to use the then standard 33 1/3 speed. Goldmark simply combined those two factors and made his microgroove LP discs. Of course, it was a tad more complicated that that, but it was the logical combination of features, as I see it. One other thing that came to mind. Let's say that Edison patented the microgroove cut in 1925 (or so). His patent would have expired in 1942, 17 years later. Probably an Edison patent was why RCA didn't use a microgroove cut pitch. Was the 33 1/3peed patented? I doubt it. It was in wide use in the the thirties through the forties. But, if Edison did have a patent on his microgroove records, Goldmark was free to use the technique because the 17 year patent life had passed. Now, on the exacr character of materials on the Victor Lp discs, I don't doubt for a second that there was more than one material for the LP records. We're going to have to find someone who has lab notes or something from Victor, explaining all of this. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records > To Ben, Doug, Peter, and all the fine folks of this list, my profound > thanks > for your fascinating and thorough contributions on this subject. In a > matter of days, I now know more than I had learned through some 15 years > of > incidental research. I can't thank you enough. > > A bit more info on materials used: My 12" Stokowski PT's are flexible > vinyl > (Vinylite?), while all my 10" are the same brittle shellac as normal 78's > of > the era. I would think "Victrolac" was a slightly (if at all) modified > shellac formula that was more about marketing 'the next next big thing' > than > being a revolutionary material (no pun intended). I am curious exactly > what > "Z shellac" is, a notation I've seen on VE scrolls in Nauck's auctions. > > We do have two questions so far unanswered, to which I'd like to add a > third: > 1. Do we have a way to find out the exact dimensions of the stylus > intended > for use with Program Transcriptions? Does anyone know of a 'white paper' > on > the subject buried somewhere in the old RCA Victor files, perhaps? > 2. Does a complete list of PT's exist anywhere that we know of? Is there > a > way to know which releases used matrices specially recorded for LP vs. > dubbed PT's? > 3. If 33.3rpm Vitaphones were a Victor concern (right? weren't they?), > and > Edison invented the microgroove (as well as the micromicrogroove with his > almost unplayable 80rpm LP's), and Victor combined a type of microgroove > with their PT LP's, then exactly what did Columbia get credited for > "inventing" in 1948? > > > Again, many thanks to you all, > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "eug4not" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:36 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records > > >> Hi folks, >> >> Here is some more info on the old Victor coarse-groove LP records: >> >> Victor placed a full page on page 1 of the December 1931 Popular Science > Monthly >> magazine. The caption said: "Now.....from "Radio Headquarters", the > amazing Radio- >> Phonograph that plays the New 30-Minute Records". Shown in the ad was a > picture of the >> newly released 12" LP: Beethoven's 5th symphony, performed by Stokowski > and the >> Philadelphia Orchestra.. It was shown, in playing position on the new > RAE-26 radio-phono. >> The text of the ad talks about 15 minutes of play time on each side of a > 12" record. My copy >> of the Beethoven 12" record (# L7001) has 3 1/8" of recorded wax on each > side. Each side >> plays for 15 1/2 minutes. The calculated number of grooves/inch comes out > at 165. L7001 is >> one of the few classical coarse-groove LP records that were recorded for > the purpose, not >> dubbed. Most were dubbed. >> >> The (I think) 1931 Victor catalog has 3 2/3 pages devoted to LP records, > the catalog >> copyrighted in 1934 has 5+ pages, the catalog copyrighted in 1936 has 3, > and the catalog >> copyrighted in 1940 has 1/3 of a page of mostly organ music, oriented to > funeral parlors. >> >> An interesting "stereo creation" of some of Duke Ellington's mono > performances recorded >> on coarse-groove LP, made in 1932, was made after the discovery that the > performances >> were recorded simultaneously on two different lathes, fed from two > different microphones. >> A clever individual (I believe his name was Mark Tucker) had the > opportunity to audition two >> recordings that seemed to be of identical performances, but had subtle > differences in sound. >> Careful synchronization and matching of playback speeds yielded a >> "stereo" > left and right >> track. These stereo creations were released on the LP label Everybody's >> as > # 3005, by >> Marlor Productions, Hicksville. NY 11802. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ben H. Tongue >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ >> >> Support Phono-L >> http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ > > Support Phono-L > http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank >
