My Pathe' Actuelle fitted with a diamond stylus plays DD's quite nicely! John
> Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:37:57 -0400 > From: lhera...@bu.edu > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > Right, Bob. I would not really advocate playing a Diamond Disc regularly on > anything but a DD machine. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:07 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > Ron, > What you said is correct; however, the head still had to be driven by > the record groove. This would create an uneven lateral pressure on the > record groove and probably affected sound quality as well as record wear. > The ultona arm also had a weight mounted parallel to the arm that could be > moved back and forth to adjust the weight of the reproducer. I'm assuming > it was designed to approximate the weight of a diamond disc reproducer as > the majority of vertical records that were played on it were probably Edison > > diamond disks. > RMV > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L" <lhera...@bu.edu> > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:07 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > > >I don't have an Ultona head, I only have the simpler one sided one. The > > actual Ultona, as I remember it has a needle bar that looks just like a DD > > arrangement. I believe the head can swivel as well to mimic DD geometry. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Douglas Houston > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:01 PM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > > > Ron: Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment > > intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. > > But, > > since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc > > carries the stylus across the record, it does so on an angle not done on > > an Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle. > > Since Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the > > disc, > > does this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the > > playing angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number > > of > > plays? I'm drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick > > phonograph for some years, but I seem to remember that the B'wick head > > plays the DD at an angle, as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. > > And, > > by the way, while the Brunswick phono I had was in very good shape, the DD > > > I > > played on it sounded far poorer than it had sounded on a DD player I once > > had. > > > > I'm assuming of course, that the stylus pressure of the Ultona (or any > > other > > head) would be similar to that of a DD player. We all know that Edison > > frowned upon anything but his players to play his records, but was there > > any > > technical substance to this, or was it simply Madison Avenue hype? > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Ron L <lhera...@bu.edu> > >> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l@oldcrank.org> > >> Date: 4/10/2008 12:07:50 PM > >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > >> > >> Well, you can't use a DD reproducer on anything but a DD. You could use > >> a > >> suitable adaptor in place of the DD reproducer, however to play another > >> brand vertical record on the DD machine. > >> > >> Diamond discs are not designed to propel the arm across the record. > > However > >> if the machine is nice and level and the arm is very free swinging, it > > will > >> work. I don't know if there is anything to be gained or lost sonically. > >> > >> Ron L > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > > On > >> Behalf Of james n. vandrisse > >> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:50 AM > >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > >> > >> (J.M.J.) > >> > >> What would the pro and cons be regarding the playing of other company > >> vertical records on a C-19 or C-250 machine? And what about playing DDs > >> on > >> any other machines that the sound box can be turned to play vertical > > records > >> with a saphire stylus? Are there any possible damages to records to be > > done, > >> or any real fidelty or presences increased especially if playing Pathe, > >> Lyric, Okeh, or other verticals through the 250 horn? I would like to try > >> this on my machines but am waiting for any advise. Maybe I am best to > >> just > >> continue to play records, as I have been, on the proper machines? > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From esrobe...@hotmail.com Fri Apr 11 14:52:13 2008 From: esrobe...@hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Fri Apr 11 14:52:20 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? References: <410-22008441020059...@earthlink.net><007401c89b46$78949ac0$90d42...@ad.bu.edu><00a401c89b4e$d8d4fad0$6500a...@your4dacd0ea75> <007e01c89c1c$4f72cc80$2f01a...@ronlherault> Message-ID: <bay143-dav2f88a1290d914722ed254aa...@phx.gbl> Not all Ultona tonearms had the DD attachment. Those that did required flipping the reproducer so that its geometry was the same as a DD phono's. So in the vertical position, perpendicular to the disc, it played laterals; in one horizontal position, it played DD's, and in the other horizontal position 180 degrees of the DD position, it played Pathe type verticals, with essentially the same geometry as a Pathe machine, just with the diaphragm 90 degrees different (parallel to the disc). That's as far as I've been able to tell from all the pictures I've seen. I've been looking for an Ultona-equipped tabletop for years, but haven't found one with all three disc set-ups. Somewhere on youtube there's a video of a DD being played with a 3-way Ultona. The groove is indeed driving the tonearm's lateral motion, but it sounds fabulous in the video. Best, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" <lhera...@bu.edu> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > Right, Bob. I would not really advocate playing a Diamond Disc regularly > on > anything but a DD machine. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:07 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > Ron, > What you said is correct; however, the head still had to be driven by > the record groove. This would create an uneven lateral pressure on the > record groove and probably affected sound quality as well as record wear. > The ultona arm also had a weight mounted parallel to the arm that could be > moved back and forth to adjust the weight of the reproducer. I'm assuming > it was designed to approximate the weight of a diamond disc reproducer as > the majority of vertical records that were played on it were probably > Edison > > diamond disks. > RMV > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L" <lhera...@bu.edu> > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:07 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? > > >>I don't have an Ultona head, I only have the simpler one sided one. The >> actual Ultona, as I remember it has a needle bar that looks just like a >> DD >> arrangement. I believe the head can swivel as well to mimic DD geometry. >> >> Ron L >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Douglas Houston >> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:01 PM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >> >> Ron: Of all people on this planet, I'm probably the least to comment >> intelligently about playing DD's on anything but an Edison phonograph. >> But, >> since, for instance, the Brunswick Ultona head plays a DD, and the disc >> carries the stylus across the record, it does so on an angle not done >> on >> an Edison player. The modulaion of the groove is then read at an angle. >> Since Edison's stylus reads the modulation on a 90 degree angle to the >> disc, >> does this degrade the quality (fidelity) of the recording, and would the >> playing angle have a detrimental effect to the disc, for the same number >> of >> plays? I'm drawing from memory, because I haven't owned a Brunswick >> phonograph for some years, but I seem to remember that the B'wick head >> plays the DD at an angle, as any oher of the "twist around" boxes did. >> And, >> by the way, while the Brunswick phono I had was in very good shape, the >> DD > >> I >> played on it sounded far poorer than it had sounded on a DD player I once >> had. >> >> I'm assuming of course, that the stylus pressure of the Ultona (or any >> other >> head) would be similar to that of a DD player. We all know that Edison >> frowned upon anything but his players to play his records, but was there >> any >> technical substance to this, or was it simply Madison Avenue hype? >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Ron L <lhera...@bu.edu> >>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l@oldcrank.org> >>> Date: 4/10/2008 12:07:50 PM >>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >>> >>> Well, you can't use a DD reproducer on anything but a DD. You could use >>> a >>> suitable adaptor in place of the DD reproducer, however to play another >>> brand vertical record on the DD machine. >>> >>> Diamond discs are not designed to propel the arm across the record. >> However >>> if the machine is nice and level and the arm is very free swinging, it >> will >>> work. I don't know if there is anything to be gained or lost sonically. >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] >> On >>> Behalf Of james n. vandrisse >>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:50 AM >>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Vertical on DD, Edison on saphire? >>> >>> (J.M.J.) >>> >>> What would the pro and cons be regarding the playing of other company >>> vertical records on a C-19 or C-250 machine? And what about playing DDs >>> on >>> any other machines that the sound box can be turned to play vertical >> records >>> with a saphire stylus? Are there any possible damages to records to be >> done, >>> or any real fidelty or presences increased especially if playing Pathe, >>> Lyric, Okeh, or other verticals through the 250 horn? I would like to >>> try >>> this on my machines but am waiting for any advise. Maybe I am best to >>> just >>> continue to play records, as I have been, on the proper machines? >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> http://mail.yahoo.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >
