The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type
of cleaner used. The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check
the ingredients. The water is tied up in a couple of the other
ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the
finish problems.
[email protected] wrote:
I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines,
but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft
cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage
shine.
We all have our own methods of course!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14
To: Antique Phonograph List<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish
formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the
first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It
will strip the decals quite rapidly.
Barry Kasindorf wrote:
Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it
leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very
good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used.
-Barry
Douglas Houston wrote:
Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available
with
pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff.
There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same
formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good
stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price.
[Original Message]
From: Ron L'Herault <[email protected]>
To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]>
Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by
L&D, I
think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease
stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as
important as
not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does
cut
through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
Ron L
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
Behalf Of Tom Jordan
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
including a
hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are
referring
to
and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean
it?
Thank you.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
going
to http://www.victor-victrola.com
Charlotte aka Waves
http://www.wavesllc.com
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
<[email protected]>wrote:
Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
buildup
of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought
by my
mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
time
ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
the
top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was
exposed.
At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
the
finish is as new.
I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
phonographs.
I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
a
XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
few
years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it
had
an
aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and
the
one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together,
checking
everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
Go-Jo
treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen
a
cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it
going. I
also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
[Original Message]
From: Andrew Baron <[email protected]>
To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]>
Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
soon regain its.
I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black
residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the
finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
Andy
On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote:
I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to
realize just
what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price,
regardless of
condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One
spring was
broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with
Go-Jo
made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!
[Original Message]
From: Mobility Scooters <[email protected]>
To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]>
Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
Andy
Great story!
Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people
must of
seen it before you did in the afternoon.
I would say it was waiting for you.
There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the
rest
of
your life. ha ha
All the very best
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
]On
Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke
Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m.
To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures???
Ken B.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
]
On
Behalf Of Andrew Baron
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM
To: Antique Phonograph List
Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of
some
of
the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a
particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph.
In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either
more
populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in
Santa Fe,
NM.
Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty
sparsely
populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or
other work
that would draw a larger population.
Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs.
Add to
this
the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized
for
music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs
to
begin
with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison
Standards,
Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably
the
models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if
not out
of
a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here
later
on,
but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and
there
isn't much of a collecting community here.
So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That
being
said,
I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X,
Edison
maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand
Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population
72,000.
Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are
geographically
isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was
brought here
from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here.
To the subject at hand:
Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual
Fall
sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of
Santa
Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait
until
late
in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the
shop
sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite
nice,
but
rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector,
so no
penalty for arriving when convenient.
We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the
proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in
the next
room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where
we
currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said
that I'd
like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed
casually
across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward
the
next
room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going
to be
examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than
I could
see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just
sticking out
beyond the wall separating the rooms.
Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my
mind to
see
a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my
powers
of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find
although I
already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful
phono-L
member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque).
Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top
curl
of
the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from
bashing the
machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the
fine,
expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer
pattern
and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the
front of
the machine, which left no doubt.
There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in
New
Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware
of the
differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own
eyes.
The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a
New
Mexico
Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges
and
trim
scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally
good and
very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper
rear
corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph
collection, and just as you like to find them
-- clearly untouched for decades.
A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed:
Original gold V key;
Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and
back;
Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still
sitting
on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet;
Near
perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold
Exhibition
soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the
lid and
in
general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record
storage
area
filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records,
and
otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower
key
escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner
curl).
Price, $650, minus 30%.
Sold!
It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more
intimately
familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is
so
prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a
respectable
original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow
grease and
the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back
with
their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a
complete
surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is
relatively
clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed
film of
old
hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places,
and a
light coat of fresh
grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly.
Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something
awful
when
winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down
and
rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs.
Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the
number of
Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total
1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total
(Roman
numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of
one
percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less
than
half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my
math
right.
Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the
gold-
plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-
off
upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the
cabinet.
It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key
escutcheon?
I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and
accurately
conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for
those
of
you who have not yet had the pleasure.
Kindest regards,
Andy Baron
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
--
NEW ADDRESS
Showplace Antique Center
40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107
NY NY 10010
t. 212-273-9616
NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5
MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT
http://www.wavesllc.com
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
