True, and I have heard that Kotton Klenser is actually a type of hand cleaner. Who knows. Go to their website at www.kottonklenser,com and there are lotsa products and faqs for use. Interesting. Is anyone else curious why 2 words normally spelt with a C are spelt with Ks (KK) and the company is in tennessee, and used to be called Rebel Products??? Just my conspiracy theory. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message----- From: Rich <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:23:08 To: Antique Phonograph List<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type of cleaner used. The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check the ingredients. The water is tied up in a couple of the other ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the finish problems. [email protected] wrote: > I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines, > but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft > cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage > shine. > We all have our own methods of course! > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich <[email protected]> > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 > To: Antique Phonograph List<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish > formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the > first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It > will strip the decals quite rapidly. > > Barry Kasindorf wrote: >> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it >> leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very >> good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. >> -Barry >> >> >> Douglas Houston wrote: >>> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available >>> with >>> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. >>> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same >>> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good >>> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. >>> >>> >>> >>>> [Original Message] >>>> From: Ron L'Herault <[email protected]> >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> >>>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >>>> >>> L&D, I >>> >>>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >>>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >>>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as >>>> important as >>>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does >>>> cut >>>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >>>> >>>> Ron L >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >>>> >>> including a >>> >>>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are >>>> referring >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >>>> >>> it? >>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >>>> >>> going >>> >>>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >>>> >>>> Charlotte aka Waves >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>>>> >>> buildup >>> >>>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought >>>>> by my >>>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>>>> >>>> time >>>> >>>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>>>> >>> the >>> >>>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was >>>>> exposed. >>>>> >>>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> finish is as new. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>>>> >>>> phonographs. >>>> >>>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>>>> >>>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>>>> >>> few >>> >>>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it >>>>> had >>>>> >>>> an >>>> >>>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and >>>>> the >>>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>>>> >>>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, >>>>> checking >>>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>>>> >>> Go-Jo >>> >>>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it >>>>> going. I >>>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>> From: Andrew Baron <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>>>> soon regain its. >>>>>> >>>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>>>> realize just >>>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>>>> regardless of >>>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>>>> spring was >>>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>>>> Go-Jo >>>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> Great story! >>>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>>>> must of >>>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>>>> rest >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>>>> All the very best >>>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>>>>> ]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>>>> >>> more >>> >>>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> NM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>>>> sparsely >>>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>>>> other work >>>>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>>>> Add to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> begin >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Standards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>>>> not out >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>>>> later >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> on, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>>>> >>> being >>> >>>>>>> said, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>>>> Edison >>>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>>>> >>> 72,000. >>> >>>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> geographically >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>>>> brought here >>>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>>>> Fall >>>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>>>> Santa >>>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> late >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>>>> shop >>>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>>>> nice, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>>>> so no >>>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>>>> the next >>>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>>>> >>> we >>> >>>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>>>> that I'd >>>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>>>> casually >>>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>>>> I could >>>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>>>> sticking out >>>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>>>> mind to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> see >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>>>> powers >>>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>>>> although I >>>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>>>> phono-L >>>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>>>> curl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>>>> bashing the >>>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>>>> >>> fine, >>> >>>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>>>> front of >>>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> trim >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>>>> good and >>>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>>>> rear >>>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>>>> back; >>>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>>>> >>> Near >>> >>>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>>>> lid and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>>>> storage >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> area >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>>>> key >>>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>>>> curl). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sold! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> intimately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>>>> >>> respectable >>> >>>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>>>> grease and >>>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> complete >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>>>> film of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> old >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>>>> awful >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>>>> number of >>>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>>>> (Roman >>>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>>>> math >>>>>>>> right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>>>> gold- >>>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> cabinet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> accurately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> NEW ADDRESS >>>> Showplace Antique Center >>>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >>>> NY NY 10010 >>>> t. 212-273-9616 >>>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >>>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
