I send this again, under a proper subject. You might want to use
a slow Friday afternoon or the weekend to think about this, and
write something up. Please do, we need your input.

We will clean up not before Tuesday - see the instructions


----- Forwarded message from Kristian Koehntopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:07:47 +0200
From: Kristian Koehntopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Stig S?ther Bakken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Kristian Koehntopp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Zeev Suraski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
        Blake Schwendiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
        php-dev mailinglist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Linux Today Article
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 
Aug 16, 2001 at 10:29:06AM +0200

[ Brainstorm warning - these are relatively unsorted thoughts,
  and they have to be taken with heavy editing. -- KK ]

[ Additional idea: Let us make this an online brainstorm. Please
  reply to this message only, do not reply to any replies at
  all for the next few days - no comments on other peoples
  ideas allowed at first, just idea collection.

  See my questions down below in the text, and answer them,
  then send your reply. Do not to try to be too friendly,
  too coherent and do not avoid provocation.

  We will have an integration session later, and see what
  comes out of this. -- KK ]

On Thu, Aug 16, 2001 at 10:29:06AM +0200, Stig S?ther Bakken wrote:
> IMHO people like Zeev, Andi and Rasmus are the natural "channels" for
> such visions, but we're not quite there yet.

They are. I was on the Future of Zend session with Zeev on
Linuxtag and met Rasmus later, too. I proposed several ideas,
but they are only fragments, not a complete concept - some of
these ideas may be interesting, though. These need to be
reviewed, integrated and then sold to the community.

Then there is the "other" problem, that is, parts of the PHP
community are still feeling uncomfortable with Zend, the license
and/or other things surrounding these issues. This, too, is not
helping in the process of creating a grand unified PHP theory.

And finally - and this is just my personal view on things, the
view of someone who is currently in the process of slowly
gaining distance to PHP and beginning very different work - I
think that some people I know personally have bet to much of
their own lives on PHP and are beginning to have difficulties to
see the fun side of all things PHP and tend to take such issues
to seriously. 

I mean, PHP still is an Open Source project despite all the
commercial undercurrents (companies selling addons, education or
conferences) popping up all over the place - and I am very happy
with that, because I strongly believe that this is the better
way to develop software. Doing Open Source should be fun, in
fact it must be fun in order to work. So tell us: Why do you
develop PHP, the language, and where do you want to go with it?

> But for a vision to form we need to find a common ground for a
> few things.  The LinuxToday article kept rambling about PHP
> not being a platform, which is true, it is but one of the
> components in such a platform.

Yes. So what is the "platform" thing to you developers, which
buzzwords, ideas, concepts and services relate to the
"platform", and how do they again relate to PHP. In technical
marketese, how do you see the current market that PHP caters,
and what market should PHP be catering in 3 and 5 years?

Please let us make this a brainstorm session - send your ideas,
perhaps roughly classify them as buzzwork, idea, concept,
service, as "plus" or "minus", as "urgent" or "nice to have" or
send them in a free form format, as you see fit. Do not reply to
other peoples ideas, and do not comment on them. Just think,
take inspiration, and send your ideas. We will discuss them and
integrate them later.

Also, what is your "vision" - the 3 and the 5 year vision? Who
will be using PHP, why will they be doing it, what will they be
doing with it, and how will it be different from the situation

And finally, what is "services" to you? How will they relate to
PHP and what do we as developers need to do to enable them?

Let's collect stuff, and see what we can make out of it.


Kristian Köhntopp, NetUSE AG Dr.-Hell-Straße, D-24107 Kiel
Tel: +49 431 386 435 00, Fax: +49 431 386 435 99

----- End forwarded message -----

Kristian Köhntopp, NetUSE AG Dr.-Hell-Straße, D-24107 Kiel
Tel: +49 431 386 435 00, Fax: +49 431 386 435 99

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