i don't get it, ze2 introduces private members, consts, statics, namespaces, delegation (and thus mi), class in class.....
and all this stuff because it don't wants to be another java.... sebastian is currently working on a book for php-oo, wants to show us how design patterns are realized with php, even how php-projects are designed using uml... and here i must read "you want real oo, take java"... i know i'm penetrating you again with this worn-out shoes, anyhow, last postings (especially the php future thread) showed me i'm not the only one begging you for real oo to be added *as an option* to php. i'm quite new to this list, so please excuse if i had been sticking on a topic already shot down. and for gods sake (if you've been reading till here) - ***this will be my definitive last posting regarding this issue***. thank you for your patience, in case i'm struggling on you. however, i'm quite disappointed and demotivated by some of your opinions, stating to keep php simple and easy, not to go for a messy java-derivate, not to make things too complicated aso aso.... please notice, this is no offense, but after getting known of the ze2 features, i personally saw php finally growing out of that "php, language for kiddies"-image. imho php is a real good language for its target purpose, but it has potential to be much better. i'm not in too deep in php and its history, just following (and had been infrequently using) it since v3. but nearly every one of my collegues and friends said to me "forget php for serious things". again, since getting known of ze2, i dreamt of php being not only cheap, easy, fast and extensible, but comprehensive, guiding, more explicit, powerful so it could compete against others in valueable markets like eai, ecommerce, eprocurement and all that funny buzzwords starting with e. not only being the first choice language for so called self-made web designers/developers/admins, *nix freaks, small "we rule the world and make best web-applications" "internet e-startup and one year later f**kup companies". please don't misunderstand me, i don't want to offend anyone by writing down such statements. i'm also a "selfmade" man and respect all of you and your work - anyhow - realize it's the reality (at least in my special environment it is). again, yes, the're hundreds and thousands of cool applications written in php - really good stuff. but couldn't it be better once php improves and extends to a mature oo-functionality ? imho, what php currently supports regarding oo is the lowest level of integration (eg like javascript and as of flash), and ze2 is currently supporting the very very most basics of oo (classing, private members, somehow overloading, statics) and is (probably) going to support multiple inheritance, synchronized delegation, namespaces... that's imho really a very big step towards real language improvement. serious respect. however, i think it's not enough to say "php is a language for easily creating good small and mid-sized web-applications *as well as* building up professional, powerful, extensible and complex applications at enterprise level. yes, indeed there's java on the market for this, there's cf, there's .net, wo aso aso... but who cares? would you really loose your community by expanding the community ? would you kick off all that guys coding php for their own website by giving companies and professionals at least the chance to get things done with php? wouldn't you inspire your existing userland to code better applications ? sorry, i don't get it - i know there has to be some cut at some point - but making oo-imrovements incomplete is worse than not making it at all. having monitored this list now for some weeks and in consequence of the recent discussions, i personally realized that my efforts towards php (time, projects, code, ideas aso aso) were not for nothing but for a language having its own life and own rules, not addressing the state-of-the-art, academically satisfied, commonly used, professional language constraints like object-orientation and explicit variable declaration. my 2c and may this topic never arise again, regards ilker -- PHP Development Mailing List <http://www.php.net/> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
