On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 11:48:03PM +0300, Andi Gutmans wrote:
> At 07:50 PM 8/18/2002 +0200, Thies C. Arntzen wrote:
> >On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 10:29:47AM -0700, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> >> I don't think we should stop people from tweaking ZE1. ZE2 is probably
> >> more than a year away from realistically being available to a lot of
> >> people. It takes a while for people to upgrade, and many will skip the .0
> >> release. If a few tweaks to ZE1 can eliminate peoples' motivation to
> >move
> >> to ZE2, then why are you writing ZE2? I obviously don't think that is
> >the
> >> case as ZE2 has a number of features people have been asking for.
> >
> > i (of course) agree with derick and rasmus. i'm all for
> > applying the patch as is. if zeev and andi don't want to
> > comment on it for their own reasons i cannot help them. if
> > the patch has a problem it'll be found very soon and it'll
> > be fixed.
>
> This isn't a conspiracy but I just completely forgot about your Email.
> Obviously if it is decided that this patch goes into Engine 1 I will look
> it over. The last thing I'd do was to allow a buggy patch to enter the
> Engine.
andi,
i'd love if you could comment on the commenting out line 1626
in the unpatched zend_execute which is needed to have a
correct backtrace in some situations. EX(object).ptr will
always be correctly reinitialized around line 1662 in the
unpatched zend_execute so i believe line 1626 in unneded.
>
>
> > if there is any *technical* reason why this patch is "not as
> > good" as the debug_backtrace that is in ZE2 - let me know.
> > otherwise i'll commit on monday.
>
> I don't think that there are any big technical reasons not to include the
> patch although it might be a bit buggy though as it hasn't been tested very
> extensively.
i fully agree.
>
> I do think you guys should consider the psychological aspects of starting
> to back port my patches from Engine 2.
as said in am the course of discussion, debug_backtrace is
(so far) the only thing really worth backporting from ZE2 as
it's a small piece of code that really makes live easier for
script-developers.
> I personally think that the ZE2 is essential for PHP to prosper in the next
> few years. The only way it can be pushed is if not only Zeev and I but
> other people in the community help push it too. It was mentioned that there
> are a couple of things still missing. I can sum it up that the two main
> features which are missing are some inheritence problems with nested
> classes, private methods and a delegation mechanism which was discussed on
> engine2 for which came up with a pretty decent way of doing which stays
> with the PHP spirit. These things will be implemented and there is no
> reason to wait until they are fully implemented in order to start pushing
> things a bit more. I started with a couple of alpha's and I definitely want
> to go for another one soon as I fixed some bugs.
>
> In the same way we didn't back port some ideas from PHP 4 to PHP 3 I think
> it's best not to do it now. Because in the end, once we (php-dev)
> transitions to ZE2 our support will naturally start shifting more and more
> towards the latest versions (the same as it did in the PHP 3 -> PHP 4
> transition). After sometime people on php-dev just won't feel like working
> on old stuff anymore. Therefore, I think we should make the benefit of
> transition to ZE2 as great as possible so that people migrate.
> As to the comparison to Apache 2 I think you're far off. The PHP 3 -> PHP 4
> transition was much smoother than that and the ZE1 -> ZE2 transition isn't
> even between rewrites but just improvements over the old stable version.
> Once a significant amount of people use it I think it'll take 2-3 months to
> iron out the bugs.
remember, we are not talking about a backport of real new
functionality, nor a new language feature. we're talking
about adding a very useful feature for developers.
my apache 2.0 thing got misinterpreted a bit - let me
clearify: apache2.0 is ready, it works and it's even better
than 1.3 (the httpd itself). but ppls don't upgrade all
threir servers immediatly. as rasmus mentioned, the same
thing will happen once PHP5 comes out. it won't be widely
used and available to everybody the day it comes out.
as for debug_backtrace() (an _only_ debug_backtrace()) i
think this is such a cool thing to have and i whished i had
it when there was PHP3. i do write large applications, and
it's sometimes very hard to find out, what's going on. c'mon
how often do you type "bt" in gdb?
re,
tc
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