2009/5/24 Nathan Rixham <nrix...@gmail.com>:
> LinuxManMikeC wrote:
>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:09 AM, tedd <tedd.sperl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> At 12:01 AM +0100 5/24/09, Nathan Rixham wrote:
>>>> LinuxManMikeC wrote:
>>>>> I was recently researching template engines for a small in-house
>>>>> project, with a bias toward simple and lightweight.  I found this
>>>>> interesting article in my search.  I think its worth considering if
>>>>> you don't need all the bells and whistles of the big template engines.
>>>>>  Simple and elegant.
>>>>> http://www.massassi.com/php/articles/template_engines/
>>>> cheers, it certainly is simple and elegant - however a bit too simple
>>>> (specifically as it's in template php); gives me immediate visions of a
>>>> wordpress template - and that's more than enough to scare me off! <lol>
>>>> regards,
>>>> nathan
>>> All:
>>> Anytime I see embedded style elements within html, that's more than ample
>>> warning to make me look elsewhere for the solution -- because IMO that's
>>> not
>>> a solution.
>>> I find it interesting that the articles states "the separation of
>>> business
>>> logic from presentation" but then combines content with presentation. I
>>> don't see any real gain here.
>>> My efforts are always trying to separate content from function and
>>> presentation. Make everything as unobtrusive as you can. Place styling in
>>> remote css, client-side javascript enhancements unobtrusively, and use
>>> server-side php/mysql to create secure and accurate function to generate
>>> the
>>> proper html and deliver desired content. I can understand someone wanting
>>> to
>>> simplify their work, but exchanging one problem for another doesn't cut
>>> it
>>> for me.
>>> Cheers,
>>> tedd
>> You're missing the point just because he threw in some old HTML
>> styling attributes.  The main issue is the overhead of added parsing
>> layers to find where content goes in the HTML.  Aren't we already
>> using a language (PHP) that parses for place holders for dynamic
>> content within HTML tags?  Write the template in XHTML, style it with
>> CSS, and insert content place marks with PHP short tags.  Do the
>> programming work of calculations, validation, and DB access in another
>> script which will include the template at the appropriate time.  Even
>> create classes to hold various data sets (think JavaBeans) if you
>> want.  Adding a layer of abstraction just so your designers don't have
>> to write <?=$var?> is silly at best.  At lest that's my opinion.  Do
>> whatever works for you.
>> Mike
> which is lovely, but then you realise you have business logic tied up in the
> presentation layer, and the client suddenly wants 3 different web based
> interfaces and a roaming flash version which calls the system via an api;
> and then you have the joy of telling the client its 6 months work and huge
> figure to rewrite the application layer to included an abstracted
> presentation layer, but it could have been avoided months ago with a days
> worth of work (or even an hours worth) and a different decision.

Using PHP for templates has absolutely no bearing on whether your
presentation is tied up with your logic or they are completely
separate. Almost every project I work on day-to-day has at least 2
front ends, XHTML and an API. In addition several have mobile versions
of the presentation layer. All of them use pure PHP to render output.

> all in though, hardly matters on a personal site, or a quick client job
> where, or a.. I guess there's a place for each technology and method; and we
> could throw scenarios around all night getting no where.

IMHO there is only one scenario where using a template engine is
justified and that's when you're working with people who insist on
using it and you can't talk them round.



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