On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jim Giner <jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com>wrote:

> And besides - I'm sure there are PLENTY of people here who despise
> scrolling
> thru endless repeated paragraphs from a long list of posts just to get the
> the latest contribution to the topic.    :)
> This newgroup may have its rules, but if bottom-posting was such a wise and
> preferred method, why do millions of business users subscribe to a product
> such as Outlook, that top-posts by default, to conduct their daily business
> via emails flying back and forth with the latest post at the beginning so
> that readers don't have to re-hash old news unless they want to?

If you're looking for a sane reason why Microsoft software is popular in the
business world you're not going to find one. If you're looking for a logical
reason it's simply because they built software that ran on the cheapest
boxes available and then put a lot of money into marketing it. That doesn't
make it good software, and it certainly doesn't give them any authority over
the "right" way to do things.

This mailing list requires selective quoting and bottom posting for the
following reasons...

1) It provides context to that contributors' contribution without requiring
the rest of the thread.
2) There is no second reason.

That's it, and it's a strong argument. I use gmail for mailing lists and as
such have access to the complete thread in a logical format. The most
popular email clients don't feature decent threading, if any at all. Would
you seriously rather wade through a date-sorted list to work out what the
hell the latest email is talking about and responding to? As an example,
your email to which I am replying starts "And besides..." Erm, besides what?
While a stretch of an example I think it illustrates the point.

In addition, these emails we send back and forth get archived on more
websites than you know about, and they're usually near the top of results
for any search you'll do for help with PHP. Upon visiting one of these
results, is it more helpful for that single page to contain the relevant
parts of the thread or do you really think it's better to have that page
only contain that one post and links to the rest of the thread? If you
really side with the latter, consider that a lot of the more useful threads
on this list end up covering a number of different subjects in its various

Public archive requirements don't generally apply to business users - very
few of them are generous/daft enough to publish their emails. It's also
worth pointing out that for me, top posting in the business world annoys me
just as must as bottom posting annoys you in this world.

One final thing... you keep calling this a newsgroup. The PHP mailing lists
are mailing lists first, and a newsgroup second - that's kinda why they're
called the PHP mailing lists.


Stuart Dallas
3ft9 Ltd

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