Hello Daniel,

>     I briefly glanced, and no more, because anyone with any idea of
> Internet etiquette knows not to forward an entire bunch of junk to a
> public and wholly-unrelated mailing list.  Had you considered the
> appropriate options, such as reading about how to contact us, you'd
> have gotten a response.  Note that the tone of your reply here has
> already changed the tenor of this entire discussion now.

Hmm, that's funny. I sent the mail to the addresses which were listed in the
replies I got. The first mail suggested to use the ml owner, which I did. Then
I got another reply which said the following:

This is an automated response to your message to "internals-ow...@lists.php.net"

If you are trying to post to one of the PHP mailing lists, the correct
address looks something like php-general@lists.php.net.

If you are having problems unsubscribing, follow the directions
located online at http://php.net/unsub

So the only address that actually seemed to be working was

How do you expect me to investigate how to contact the mailing list owners
other than reading the mails I get from the mailing list.

You wrote that 'anyone with any idea of Internet etiquette knows not to
forward an entire bunch of junk to a public and wholly-unrelated mailing list'.
You know, you could also say the following:

Anyone with any idea of Internet etiquette knows that if you send an automated
reply, you also include a correct address to which you can reply to.

Using only addresses that return additional canned responses is against the
Internet etiquette.

It is not my fault that the only address that worked was a totally unrelated
public mailing list.

>     And, for the most part, we are (save for a few sentient androids).
>  However, go to news.php.net and look at those bounce messages.  Note
> it's all consecutive, within a relatively small window of time.  Then,
> using your own suggestion about reading the email, look at the bounce
> response: the messages were undeliverable up to a time threshold, when
> the server gave up.  Sounds like there was an issue connecting to your
> SMTP system during that window.  If you have the appropriate access,
> you might want to review your mail logs during this window.

Ok. This makes sense since the mail server was down for several days due to a
HW problem.
But this is something which can happen and I find it rather concerning getting
an email which states that I might be removed w/o further notice.
If the system knows that mails were undeliverable during a certain period,
then there is no reason for sending me a warning. If this happens for 14
consecutive days, then it makes sense to send an email.

>     Well, as the adage goes, you'll catch more flies with honey than
> with vinegar.  And considering this is the very first message I've
> ever seen from you, it sounds like either (a) you didn't follow the
> proper protocol, or (b) there's something in the process we need to
> review.  If you think the issue lies on our end, you can submit a bug
> at https://bugs.php.net/ and detail the steps to reproduce the issue.
> If it is indeed something we need to correct, believe me, we will.  We
> don't deliberately attempt to mislead or frustrate people, despite how
> it might have seemed.

I was one of the original developers of the native ibm_db2 driver for PHP. I
also subscribed to the internal mailing list at that time, because I wanted to
work on PHP itself. Unfortunately most developers started to be quite
condescending in this list and thus I never really posted anything to that list.

regards Helmut K. C. Tessarek
lookup http://sks.pkqs.net for KeyID 0xC11F128D

   Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer for chaos and madness
   await thee at its end.

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