On 08/03/2002 09:16 AM, Andrey Hristov wrote:
>>>>>Is this equivalent to Zend Encoder?
>>>>Not exactly, but in some aspects it is/will be better like the ability
>>>>to generate executable standalone PHP programs that you can distribute
>>>>independently. There is also the question of the price that for Zend
>>>>Encoder is ridiculously expensive.
>  The people for Zend have to eat to live.

And don't we all? That is the main problem. If we need to pay USD $3,000 
to be able to compile our PHP programs, doesn't that make not viable for 
most of us to sell our PHP programs as closed source?

> People, if there is no Zend there is no core for PHP. This is the same as
> with MySQL. MySQL is free under GPL
> but has no subselects because the companies that has commercial licenses
> didn't wanted that - Monty has
> to eat and he codes other features.

If there is something that Zend people do not have a problem that is to 
be able to eat from their work. Just recently they announced a USD 
$300,000 deal, which where I live lets many eat for many years.

> IMO Zend must exist and this is only possible by selling its products.

I only agree with the first part. It is not true that selling products 
is the only viable way for them to survive. Your MySQL example is good 
because they have been leaving from consulting, training and certification.

> If the company we work for has the money to buy Zend Accelerator licenses
> why not do that instead of using

That is your decision. Zend people have publically declared that they 
are targetting high-end customers. Their pricing obviously rules out the 
majority of us for which their prices are simply unaffordable, 
especially if you have to pay them over and over again if you want to 
use them every year.

Since we are not idiots, if we have Open Source solutions that solve our 
problem, why do you think that paying those fortunes to Zend would be a 
better idea?

I think their business model makes sense to make their company viable, 
but that should be at the expense of those that can't afford their 
prices. Let those that believe that expensive software is a better 
solution from them then Open Source, to make Zend company viable.

Also, Zend uses a subscription based licensing which is what Microsoft 
is shifting their licenses too. I am not saying that is wrong, I just 
say that it is not acceptable for most of us to stay in the dependence 
of Zend to keep our software running every year. If you agree with the 
licensing, it is your problem.

> other Open Source accelerators. I just want the people from Zend to continue
> their tremendous work and
> we will have PHP5 and PHP6 and so on otherwise start learning ASP or JSP.

If you ask me, I see very little point in what you say. You just made it 
sound as if Zend people are the only ones working on the development of PHP.

The way I see it PHP lacks mostly of extensions that address real world 
problems of many people like: interfacing with Web services via SOAP, 
compiling PHP scripts to protect so we can generate closed source 
standalone executables, multi-threading support, generating GUI 
applications, interfacing with the user management and authentication 
system, etc..

Zend people are not working on anything like this as they don't agree it 
is important for PHP or for their business that is all that matters to them.

As a matter of fact the only thing that Zend people have been working on 
PHP itself is Zend engine 2. Last time that I looked, Zend engine 2  is 
mostly a thing that was developed to make PHP more like Java. If I 
wanted that, I would probably be using Java instead. I am afraid that is 
only helping to remember more and more users to switch to Java.

> My 2 cents.

Actually that should be worth many times USD $3,000...  for Zend of 
course. :-)


Manuel Lemos

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