And collective.multilingual fills exactly which gap? It's the "LinguaPlone" on top of all dexterity related-packages providing a similar UI functionality as LP?
Andreas 2012/10/3 Ramon Navarro Bosch <[email protected]>: > We separated on 4 different packages because : > > * 1 for archetypes ( you can get rid of it when archetypes does not exist ) > * 1 for dexterity (if you have a AT only site you can not install this ) > * 1 for core relation and subscribers ( no UI , just the relations, this > enable the option to install/uniinstall multilingual without loosing any > translation information ) > * 1 for UI (plone.app.multilingual) > > The idea is to have only plone.app.multilingual on quickinstaller on 1.0 > version. > > If you add plone.app.multilingual on buildout and install it on > quickinstaller, it installs the other packages :) > > Ramon > > On 3 October 2012 12:17, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> What is the difference to plone.app.multilingual or plone.multilingual >> or whatever? I see a magnitude of packages dealing with multilingual >> aspects in some way or the other but I really have no clue about what >> to use where and when and why? Can't there be a canonical solution? >> >> -aj >> >> Ramon Navarro Bosch wrote: >> > *Today evening we're releasing the package plone.app.multilingual 1.0 >> > beta3. This is a major update as it includes the features we've planned >> > for a 1.0 version. Now we are going to push hard to solve bugs with the >> > main idea to release a 1.0 just after the sprint at the Arnhem Plone >> > Conference. >> > >> > You can find the code on GitHub: >> > >> > https://github.com/plone/plone.app.multilingual >> > >> > *The actual test situation on pam is : >> > ** >> > >> > * **plone.multilingual 90%** >> > * **plone.multilingualbehavior 92%** >> > * **archetypes.multilingual 97%** >> > * **plone.app.multilingual 70%** >> > >> > * >> > Maybe you’ve noticed Malthe has committed the code of a new package to >> > the collective: collective.multilingual. After some discussion and >> > interchanges of points of view, he decided to abandon the line we’ve set >> > with PAM and wanted to make his own implementation. >> > >> > I think it’s a great work, after all, he is one of the few guys that >> > understands 100% z3c.form, so great work. I can't hide my sadness to see >> > that Malthe decided that this smart code is not going to be included on >> > DX plone.app.multilingual stuff. We will try to learn more about how >> > schema/z3c.form works with this example. >> > >> > I want to explain our point of view on this matter. >> > **About the code design * >> > >> > *(I'm not going to talk about AT as collective.multilingual doesn't >> > support it):* >> > >> > * >> > The core idea is the same as on plone.multilingual, instead of querying >> > every time you need to know the languages at which is translated on the >> > catalog on plone.multilingual we implemented a direct access on a BTree. >> > We evaluated this option and, maybe because I come from teaching >> > computer science at university, I thought it must be faster to access a >> > hash instead of looking at the big catalog for the object with that >> > translation. It's almost the same. IMHO I don’t think that including all >> > the Plone information on the catalog is a good idea, maybe we can get >> > rid of the content itself and just use the catalog for everything. >> > >> > As we are dealing with different kind of objects we created a ILanguage >> > interface to get the language on AT and DX >> > >> > About the content distribution, it is the same on both, language root >> > folders and forcing the content language on each branch. >> > >> > About Language Independent solution, as collective.multilingual is for >> > DX only and someday will have an implementation, we used the >> > IObjectModified event to copy the elements that are independent to all >> > the translated languages. We pay a bit of time on edit but it's faster >> > on read. We also used a martian directive, an importer for model xml and >> > a interface that can be applied ( so whatever is your way you can set a >> > field as independent ). Or if you are interested you can do it TTW also. >> > >> > About DAG, on plone.multilingual there is a star implementation because >> > of efficiency. But it's easy to implement a DAG on a star, we just found >> > a problem with that: if we allow to choose the original translation on >> > edit form, from which you want to translate, the "DAG" idea is not 100% >> > clear, maybe some day you translate a document to english from catalan, >> > but then the spanish version is better and you want to translate from >> > spanish… So we thought about forgetting a bit about that by now. >> > >> > About neutral content, we implemented a neutral shared folder on top >> > where content language is always independent and you can browse the >> > folder without any problem. I can't see any solutions to this problem on >> > collective.multilingual. >> > >> > About the UI >> > >> > The menus are the same, the same ideas (we also allow to edit directly >> > the already created language). We also added the “universal link” >> > concept (a link to the content for press publication -> it redirects >> > to the browser language content if exists or to a choose which language >> > you prefer on your browser). >> > >> > The viewlets are a great idea, we were thinking about where to add the >> > parent not translated and supported languages. We are gonna integrate >> > them from collective.multilingual :) >> > >> > We added a lot of UI cool features that are our main goal for user >> > experience, with some images: >> > >> > * A control panel with the option to see on a graph the translations for >> > each language, which translations are missing and enable to create them >> > >> > * A integration with neutral content folder, you can have a neutral >> > image/file/page and point it from tinyMCE or just create a first level >> > folder on all the languages at the same time. >> > >> > * Migration procedures from LinguaPlone. >> > >> > * Different options for setting up the site. >> > >> > * Policies about language selector viewlet (closest translation or >> > not_translated view). >> > >> > * Change/set the language of a content or tree option with copy/paste >> > support (to a different language root tree) too. >> > >> > * Google Translation Service to aid on text field translations >> > >> > We tried to maintain as much as possible the UX from LinguaPlone, the >> > users are important and our experience is that changing the UI to much >> > is bad :) However, we benefits from the experience of lots of >> > non-technical users using LinguaPlone on more than 500 sites deployed to >> > the date. We tried to put that knowledge into account when thought about >> > PAM UI and UX. We know we have a lot of work on UI yet, however we think >> > we are in the right path. >> > >> > Missing features on 1.0, but on roadmap: >> > >> > * XLIFF export/import: we are gonna push the draft we have to a branch, >> > needs some work to make it work perfect on AT/DX. ( as an external >> > module ) >> > >> > * Iterate: we know there are some needs about iterate integration, I >> > hope that we can work on that at ploneconf! >> > >> > * LinguaPlus/linguatools viewlets - tools, some useful tools like >> > changing the workflow on all translations ( as an external module ) >> > >> > * Outdated translations alerts >> > >> > Finally say that I'm really happy about PAM development, it has involved >> > a lot of people, awello, sneridagh, ereal, mauritsvanrees, >> > tmassman, do3cc**and mizio and is the result of a team of people with >> > different skills!! * >> > >> > * >> > * >> > >> > On 3 October 2012 11:43, Malthe Borch <[email protected] >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> > >> > I have uploaded the source code for a new Plone add-on that provides >> > support for content in multiple languages: >> > >> > https://github.com/collective/collective.multilingual >> > >> > It's an alternative to plone.multilingual and its related packages >> > and >> > basically provides the same functionality. >> > >> > The main motivation was to have a simple architecture that benefits >> > from Plone's new content type framework. It's a maintainable, >> > tested, >> > easy to understand codebase. >> > >> > For instance, we use Dexterity's built-in add- and edit forms, >> > without >> > any customization. This is possible because of the pluggable >> > architecture of the underlying forms library, z3c.form. It made it >> > trivial to implement a feature such as language-independent values. >> > >> > Note that we don't – and can't – provide support for Archetypes. >> > >> > Finally, the add-on does not currently provide any translation aids >> > such as integration with Google translate or the like. I'd like to >> > see >> > such features added, but it's also important that there's a >> > reasonable >> > control on what the add-on should provide out of the box. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > \malthe >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Ramon a.k.a bloodbare >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Product-Developers mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers >> > > > > -- > Ramon a.k.a bloodbare _______________________________________________ Product-Developers mailing list [email protected] https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers
