collective.multilingual is a product malthe developed by himself because he is not agree on how we implemented plone.multilingual and prefers to implement something new. Does not have anything to do with plone.app.multilingual.
Ramon On 3 October 2012 12:43, Andreas Jung <[email protected]> wrote: > And collective.multilingual fills exactly which gap? > It's the "LinguaPlone" on top of all dexterity related-packages providing > a similar UI functionality as LP? > > Andreas > > 2012/10/3 Ramon Navarro Bosch <[email protected]>: > > We separated on 4 different packages because : > > > > * 1 for archetypes ( you can get rid of it when archetypes does not > exist ) > > * 1 for dexterity (if you have a AT only site you can not install this ) > > * 1 for core relation and subscribers ( no UI , just the relations, this > > enable the option to install/uniinstall multilingual without loosing any > > translation information ) > > * 1 for UI (plone.app.multilingual) > > > > The idea is to have only plone.app.multilingual on quickinstaller on 1.0 > > version. > > > > If you add plone.app.multilingual on buildout and install it on > > quickinstaller, it installs the other packages :) > > > > Ramon > > > > On 3 October 2012 12:17, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> What is the difference to plone.app.multilingual or plone.multilingual > >> or whatever? I see a magnitude of packages dealing with multilingual > >> aspects in some way or the other but I really have no clue about what > >> to use where and when and why? Can't there be a canonical solution? > >> > >> -aj > >> > >> Ramon Navarro Bosch wrote: > >> > *Today evening we're releasing the package plone.app.multilingual 1.0 > >> > beta3. This is a major update as it includes the features we've > planned > >> > for a 1.0 version. Now we are going to push hard to solve bugs with > the > >> > main idea to release a 1.0 just after the sprint at the Arnhem Plone > >> > Conference. > >> > > >> > You can find the code on GitHub: > >> > > >> > https://github.com/plone/plone.app.multilingual > >> > > >> > *The actual test situation on pam is : > >> > ** > >> > > >> > * **plone.multilingual 90%** > >> > * **plone.multilingualbehavior 92%** > >> > * **archetypes.multilingual 97%** > >> > * **plone.app.multilingual 70%** > >> > > >> > * > >> > Maybe you’ve noticed Malthe has committed the code of a new package to > >> > the collective: collective.multilingual. After some discussion and > >> > interchanges of points of view, he decided to abandon the line we’ve > set > >> > with PAM and wanted to make his own implementation. > >> > > >> > I think it’s a great work, after all, he is one of the few guys that > >> > understands 100% z3c.form, so great work. I can't hide my sadness to > see > >> > that Malthe decided that this smart code is not going to be included > on > >> > DX plone.app.multilingual stuff. We will try to learn more about how > >> > schema/z3c.form works with this example. > >> > > >> > I want to explain our point of view on this matter. > >> > **About the code design * > >> > > >> > *(I'm not going to talk about AT as collective.multilingual doesn't > >> > support it):* > >> > > >> > * > >> > The core idea is the same as on plone.multilingual, instead of > querying > >> > every time you need to know the languages at which is translated on > the > >> > catalog on plone.multilingual we implemented a direct access on a > BTree. > >> > We evaluated this option and, maybe because I come from teaching > >> > computer science at university, I thought it must be faster to access > a > >> > hash instead of looking at the big catalog for the object with that > >> > translation. It's almost the same. IMHO I don’t think that including > all > >> > the Plone information on the catalog is a good idea, maybe we can get > >> > rid of the content itself and just use the catalog for everything. > >> > > >> > As we are dealing with different kind of objects we created a > ILanguage > >> > interface to get the language on AT and DX > >> > > >> > About the content distribution, it is the same on both, language root > >> > folders and forcing the content language on each branch. > >> > > >> > About Language Independent solution, as collective.multilingual is for > >> > DX only and someday will have an implementation, we used the > >> > IObjectModified event to copy the elements that are independent to all > >> > the translated languages. We pay a bit of time on edit but it's faster > >> > on read. We also used a martian directive, an importer for model xml > and > >> > a interface that can be applied ( so whatever is your way you can set > a > >> > field as independent ). Or if you are interested you can do it TTW > also. > >> > > >> > About DAG, on plone.multilingual there is a star implementation > because > >> > of efficiency. But it's easy to implement a DAG on a star, we just > found > >> > a problem with that: if we allow to choose the original translation on > >> > edit form, from which you want to translate, the "DAG" idea is not > 100% > >> > clear, maybe some day you translate a document to english from > catalan, > >> > but then the spanish version is better and you want to translate from > >> > spanish… So we thought about forgetting a bit about that by now. > >> > > >> > About neutral content, we implemented a neutral shared folder on top > >> > where content language is always independent and you can browse the > >> > folder without any problem. I can't see any solutions to this problem > on > >> > collective.multilingual. > >> > > >> > About the UI > >> > > >> > The menus are the same, the same ideas (we also allow to edit directly > >> > the already created language). We also added the “universal link” > >> > concept (a link to the content for press publication -> it > redirects > >> > to the browser language content if exists or to a choose which > language > >> > you prefer on your browser). > >> > > >> > The viewlets are a great idea, we were thinking about where to add the > >> > parent not translated and supported languages. We are gonna integrate > >> > them from collective.multilingual :) > >> > > >> > We added a lot of UI cool features that are our main goal for user > >> > experience, with some images: > >> > > >> > * A control panel with the option to see on a graph the translations > for > >> > each language, which translations are missing and enable to create > them > >> > > >> > * A integration with neutral content folder, you can have a neutral > >> > image/file/page and point it from tinyMCE or just create a first level > >> > folder on all the languages at the same time. > >> > > >> > * Migration procedures from LinguaPlone. > >> > > >> > * Different options for setting up the site. > >> > > >> > * Policies about language selector viewlet (closest translation or > >> > not_translated view). > >> > > >> > * Change/set the language of a content or tree option with copy/paste > >> > support (to a different language root tree) too. > >> > > >> > * Google Translation Service to aid on text field translations > >> > > >> > We tried to maintain as much as possible the UX from LinguaPlone, the > >> > users are important and our experience is that changing the UI to much > >> > is bad :) However, we benefits from the experience of lots of > >> > non-technical users using LinguaPlone on more than 500 sites deployed > to > >> > the date. We tried to put that knowledge into account when thought > about > >> > PAM UI and UX. We know we have a lot of work on UI yet, however we > think > >> > we are in the right path. > >> > > >> > Missing features on 1.0, but on roadmap: > >> > > >> > * XLIFF export/import: we are gonna push the draft we have to a > branch, > >> > needs some work to make it work perfect on AT/DX. ( as an external > >> > module ) > >> > > >> > * Iterate: we know there are some needs about iterate integration, I > >> > hope that we can work on that at ploneconf! > >> > > >> > * LinguaPlus/linguatools viewlets - tools, some useful tools like > >> > changing the workflow on all translations ( as an external module ) > >> > > >> > * Outdated translations alerts > >> > > >> > Finally say that I'm really happy about PAM development, it has > involved > >> > a lot of people, awello, sneridagh, ereal, mauritsvanrees, > >> > tmassman, do3cc**and mizio and is the result of a team of people with > >> > different skills!! * > >> > > >> > * > >> > * > >> > > >> > On 3 October 2012 11:43, Malthe Borch <[email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > > >> > I have uploaded the source code for a new Plone add-on that > provides > >> > support for content in multiple languages: > >> > > >> > https://github.com/collective/collective.multilingual > >> > > >> > It's an alternative to plone.multilingual and its related packages > >> > and > >> > basically provides the same functionality. > >> > > >> > The main motivation was to have a simple architecture that > benefits > >> > from Plone's new content type framework. It's a maintainable, > >> > tested, > >> > easy to understand codebase. > >> > > >> > For instance, we use Dexterity's built-in add- and edit forms, > >> > without > >> > any customization. This is possible because of the pluggable > >> > architecture of the underlying forms library, z3c.form. It made it > >> > trivial to implement a feature such as language-independent > values. > >> > > >> > Note that we don't – and can't – provide support for Archetypes. > >> > > >> > Finally, the add-on does not currently provide any translation > aids > >> > such as integration with Google translate or the like. I'd like to > >> > see > >> > such features added, but it's also important that there's a > >> > reasonable > >> > control on what the add-on should provide out of the box. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > \malthe > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Ramon a.k.a bloodbare > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Product-Developers mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Ramon a.k.a bloodbare > -- Ramon a.k.a bloodbare
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