Am 30. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
moin moin Lisa,
I tired of convincing others in PLUG to keep including you. I tired of
doing damage control as you pissed off various groups of people and got
yourself uninvited to multiple locations. I tired of needing to mend
relationships such that PLUG can still work with those same groups.
Over the years I have received more complaints about you than everyone
else togeter. Far more than any other person, you have specifically been
cited as the reason why someone has chosen to no longer participate in
PLUG.
Essentially, I stopped saying to include you despite requests to ask you
to leave. The overwhelming opinion was to let you go your own way.
Your hackfests have not participated with PLUG for years. PLUG membership
has asked me that PLUG no longer participate with you or the hackfests. I
have finally acquiesced.
As to your fascination to my wedding ring, I have no idea what you're
talking about. My private life is private and should stay that way.
You will be moderated on the PLUG mailing lists. You can continue
spreading your distortion field elsewhere, but PLUG does not need to
provide you with resources to continue trolling PLUG.
As always, we welcome on topic, helpful posts.
ciao,
der.hans
Walter,
Thanks for chiming in. I, for the most part agree with you.
If you read my context, I said "others have contacted me with a long
laundry list" "including sexual harassment" (which was the term used by the
individual contacting me). While an assumption that the women in PLUG are
only interested to interact (with Hans) for the purposes of personal
intimacy (as evidenced by the repeated action of calling attention to a
wedding ring to multiple women) is not in it's definition "sexual
harassment", it might be considered to be rude or inappropriate and and
indication "gender bias" in PLUG roles. I clearly said I had "stayed out
of the controversy, if you can read context?
And Walter, I referenced the experience with limits to communication with
Hans because he said I had "been acting as a seperate group for years". It
is contextually appropriate to bring up such unprofessional behavior
related to communication with PLUG decision makers. This arbitrary
decision was made by Hans alone [like everything in PLUG]).
In truth the whole thing most probably boils down to scheduling and
limitations to the PLUG website CMS for repeated events or events that
occur concurrently.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Walter Mack <[email protected]> wrote:
Lisa,
to me, being someone who has a good relationship with PLUG and Hans, I
feel that your post is offensive, not just to Hans, but to everyone who
considers PLUG to be a positive influence for the greater metro Phoenix
area.
Can the functioning of PLUG be improved? Of course, like almost
everything. I for my part appreciate the work PLUG (and by extension Hans)
is doing, and given the demands of our individual lives, I believe it is
commendable!
Regarding your claims of sexual harassment, you might want to consider its
definition (which, as you might now, governs the workplace). I found this
link
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm From the information
I have, it seems unlikely that what you describe would qualify for sexual
harassment!
I think your post abundantly shows your displeasure with the way things
are, and you don't have to repeat it any more. If you have such a low
opinion of matters relating to PLUG, you always have the options to either
branch out on your own, or find an organization with which you can have a
better relationship.
I wish you lots of success with the hackfest and other efforts you
undertake, and I hope you are sufficiently motivated by their benefits, and
can accept others making decisions about calendar entries that you disagree
with.
Walter
On 11/30/2014 08:22 AM, Lisa Kachold wrote:
Hans/(All),
PLUG (aka Hans [since actually no leadership was ever allowed] is going
to have to state the rules under which you are "dismissing" via schedule
removal a healthy regular popular venue.
PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") is going to have to reference when those rules
were published and when they were delivered to me.
EVERYONE has historically had their own website, because PLUG does not
allow:
1) Specific wording in announcements.
2) Submitting additional announcements and extensive innovative content.
3) Presentation postings.
Examples of other historic users (in good standing) with their own
websites to support their presentations and community endeavors include:
Ryan Rix
Alan Dayley
Joseph Sinclair
Brian Cluff
Alexander Henry
The PLUG (lack of structure and rules/guidelines) consistent with other
cities of comparable sizes (specific examples are Seattle, Los Angeles and
Portland) has kept the group from becoming all that a LUG can be.
Older retired penguins have devoted thousands of hours and dollars each
year purchasing their own equipment for community venues like Installfest
without anyone in PLUG "leadership" even getting a 501(c)3 rider under
another PLUG to allow income tax relief.
Here's a long list of past discussions that echo these limitations and
issues:
http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20100205.085425.dbace92f.en.html
http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20130508.020509.d70d1744.en.html
http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20090806.163922.37c4d455.en.html
http://208.77.223.83/lurker/message/20101108.063046.7219d889.en.html
The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") limiting announcements and
venues (like the HackFest) that promote continuing educational schools
(other than Mesa Community College [where he has been adjunct teacher]) are
obvious.
The ramifications of PLUG (aka Hans "Luft") "dropping" a 7 year
successful event like the HackFest is HUGE.
I have been long contacted by members active for many years who want
support to backup recommendations to disband the PLUG (or remove
"Presidential dictatorship") with a long laundry list of reasons from
sexual harassment (Example: Hans raising his wedding ring clad finger to
women as they wait to speak with him about PLUG matters during public
community events [which I have experienced twice myself]) to outright
misuse of funding ( [tee shirts and donations from local businesses] and
PLUG interns/students raising money for sister project ABLEConf) as well as
inappropriate steering to classes at Mesa Community College during
"OpenSource" community venues.
I have stayed out of escalation of those issues to other authorities,
but "Silence is DEATH" and a Linux Users Group where membership live in
threat of social ostracism and promote via "inner circle relationships" (or
make decisions like drop a healthy venue without written rules or warning)
is nothing more than a "GANG" and is destined to die.
1) Please show me the rules under which removal of the HackFests from
the calendar was made? If there was a scheduling issue, why was I not
called or allowed to reschedule? Our security community and active interns
have been historically very changeable and this could be easily arranged at
DeVry University who also provide a rack at OneNeck.
2) Please show me the rules that state posting a discussion to more than
one mailing list with the same content is disallowed? It is not on any of
the mailing list phxlinux.org pages?
3) And while we are talking about it, please show me the rules (in any
PLUG) that state that we can't have TWO PLUG EVENTS on the same day? Is
that because the website php CMS software won't allow it? [/LAUGH]
I have a HackFest iPhone and Android app ready (which can be released in
the next week) to submit to Google Play and Apple Store. I will happily
leave the phxlinux.org and PLUG name out of that code.
Thanks for "allowing me" to continue to announce the HackFests on the
mailing lists.
Happy ThanksGiving
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM, der.hans <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 29. Nov, 2014 schwätzte Lisa Kachold so:
moin moin Lisa,
I was curious as to why you have removed the Hackfests (2nd Saturday of
every month) afrom the PLUG Calendar?
You've been acting as a seperate group for years. You have your own web
site and mailing list for your group.
You may continue announcing your events on the list, but please stop
cross-posting to multiple lists.
ciao,
der.hans
Hackfests have been going strong since 2008 and have students from ITT and
strong support from DeVry where instructors provide extra credit to their
security students for attendance.
DeVry University provides a rack for PLUG use (providing it is actually
used in context with student related open source activities) at OneNeck
which is populated with a VMWare ESXi 5.5 server, OpenVPN server,
Security
Onion, Metasploitable and other images for demonstration purposes, all of
which has been built entirely with community contributed assets and
intern
effort. We contribute Kali CD's for lab demonstration use, promotional
tee
shirts and shared DefCon videos each year.
We have a large following of local security professionals, with visits
from
University of Phoenix, Palo Verde Nuclear, Department of the Army and
GoDaddy staff.
I have received no notice related to any new requirements or change?
I have posted monthly announcements to the PLUG Announce list since 2008
and have never been notified of any other PLUG requirements?
Please add this great linux security lab venue back to the PLUG Schedule.
2nd Saturday of every month 11:00 - 2:00 PM.
DeVry University
Thanks
--
# http://www.LuftHans.com/ http://www.PhxLinux.org/
# A Polish friend of mine got an offer for a free account from AOL. The
# login ID was "HELLO" and the passwd "CYMBAL". She says "cymbal" is like
# a Polish word for "sucker". 'Hello sucker', a greeting from AOHell :).
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