I think it mostly comes down to the fact that they can only
really guarantee 2 or 4 wires to a premise for residential
telco, probably more modern deployments a full 8 wires (ala
CatX), though their traditional copper distribution isn't
built for it unless commercial (their big PED on the roads
your neighborhood comes back to. Probably something in the
telcordia standards back to ma bell days that says that is
just how it is. Since the plants are non-shielded,
non-twisted pair cabling too, it can only modulate so high,
particularly when poorly run/done, which is why you're stuck
at 12mbps.
If they had to change your home copper, they'd just run
fiber, neither will happen likely.
The DSL bonding is already a hack to get more bandwidth when
DSL itself is stuck in time now at raw theoretical limits.
Combining more physical channels as these were would be
trivial, if copper were available, and telcos wanted to
support it. Someone would need to make the modem too.
Technically cable modems do this, literally taking "channels"
or slices or spectrum on the wire, and load-balancing them
internally, up to 24 or 32 channels for multi-gig
capabilities. Same with ethernet, taking 8 into a
port-channel and balancing across them, whether 100 megabit
or 400 gigabit ethernet.
AT&T is the most ghetto provider out there still, and always
has been imho. Moving to San Jose in '99, there was AT&T
Cable TV installed by the owners, which consisted of 2x of
your standard coax ala modern cable from the outside, and
required a physical a/b switch box to switch between 13
channels on one, and 13 channels on another. First I looked
at it, and was confused enough I had to call them and ask wtf
the cable "channels" worked to realize just how bad it was,
and I then worked for the original @home cable isp company
then supporting AT&T cable modems! The images were even
snowy, the service was so bad even a tech couldn't (read:
wouldn't) improve. When I asked about a cable modem, they
laughed at me, so I had to get DSL (phat 1.5mbps then),
disconnected the useless cable tv (yay usenet
alt.binaries.video even then), and threw up a finger to AT&T.
I can only imagine how bad AT&T's DSL is if they couldn't
figure out even coax. My experience supporting their
customers for Cable Modem data in '99, relatively new tech
then, wasn't much better, as if the cable plant to your house
was broke, it tended to just stay broke despite our rolling
their techs to fix it. Then they'd get angry at us for doing
so and tell us to stop rolling so many trucks to fix things.
Sigh.
Having grown up in Phoenix where Dimension, and later Cox
actually had their shit (relatively) together, this was an
inconceivable atrocity but exactly what I'd expect of AT&T.
Thanks to them (and Comcast, all the media cartels now
really) owning the FCC now with your tax dollars, it'll
never, ever, get better either. Good thing Net Neutrality
and consumer rights weren't really needed after all!
-mb
On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 12:42 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
150 Mbps, you're lucky. Here AT&T has to bond 2 pairs
so I can get 25 Mbps. At least it's not comcast. I
wonder how many pairs they could bond. Is there a
technical limit or is it just a matter of how many they
want to bond? As more people abandon landlines, that
leaves more capacity for AT&T to bond multiple pairs for
internet customers.
On 8/10/20 11:21 AM, Michael Butash via PLUG-discuss wrote:
So I went through this moving from Cox to CenturyLink,
and pretty much as described, fairly painless.
<tldr>
I had scheduled a CL tech to install me for new service
a few years ago, and we first hit the outside where CL
ran their cabling in. It was an ancient telephony
distribution from the 90's, and I've never had a
land-line in my house since owning it in 2002. My house
built in 95 at least used cat5 or like, so I have 4
pairs to every room, so 2 pairs I need was just fine for
bonded DSL He ripped out the old block, removing the
house cabling but the one, and isolated the particular
line we needed to my office where the modem lives, added
an approved jack, done. Bonded dsl is 2x 2-wire
channels, and they essentially load-balance 75+75mbps
channels. I have tested this to n-by gigabit upstreams.
Phone only guarantees 2 wires are available, so telcos
built on this 100 years ago are a bit assed-out on
passable high-frequency modulation schemas in use for
data and other things to move beyond where they're at.
DSL makes up for this, particularly when double up on
wires it gets better, but still unshielded and prone to
breakdown. Problem is mostly it isn't shielded, thus
capable of very high frequency modulation ala
Cable/DOCSIS, so it will never go much further than it
has today whereas Cable scales to gigabits with
channelization and QAM modulation at 32bit rates.
VDSL tech is capable of roughly 75mbps per channel, and
2x of these get you to around CL's bonded DSL limits.
This also includes your distance limitations to your
local DSLAM, or regional router that terminates your
data that degrades this eventually further you are from
it, so it's a bit tricky. It's been stuck here for
years, and pretty much at life end. This is why my
cousin living half a mile from me can only get 75mbps
from CL and I can with bonded @150mbps here. Old crap
network there.
Fiber, particularly Single Mode, gives you whatever to
~100GbE, but depends on how your provider does low-rate
Passive Optical Networking (PON) today for residential
fiber. Not quite the same as a business data network,
but any fiber is better than copper networks.
Why Centurylink's only hope for the future is fiber vs.
copper in new builds. I like my 25yr old house still, so
no fiber for me ever. Unless I street cut my block for
fiber myself, which I've considered, just need to get my
neighbors to buy into me as their new gigabit isp. ;)
-mb
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 1:27 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Ok. I won't complain if I have to go out and buy a
4 conductor phone cord.
On 8/7/20 9:05 AM, Stephen Partington wrote:
My understanding of this is that they will activate
the second pair that is commonly used in the RJ-43
port in your wall. This will allow 2 lines active
to the device.
Changes inside might need to happen if your
residence does not have 4 wire (2 line)
compatibility. (IE 2 pairs to the jack vs 1 pair)
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 PM Jim via PLUG-discuss
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Where I live, I get AT&T for my DSL service.
I've signed up for an
upgrade from 10 Mbps to 25. I finally got
someone there who would tell
me why a technician visit is required for the
upgrade. They're bonding 2
pairs to supply the faster speed here. I've
read up online about DSL
bonding. I understand that one pair will carry
some of the data, and
the other pair will carry some. But one thing I
didn't find out was
whether or not anything will change between the
wall jack and the
modem. Is everything done outside or do they
have to come inside? I
currently have a 2 conductor cord connecting my
modem to the wall jack.
Will that have to be replaced with a 4
conductor cord? Do they install
an extra box outside or inside? I guess all
will be answered on the
18th when the guy is scheduled to be here.
I'm really curious how this
works.
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your
mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
--
A mouse trap, placed on top of your alarm clock,
will prevent you from rolling over and going back
to sleep after you hit the snooze button.
Stephen
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail
settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
---------------------------------------------------
PLUG-discuss mailing list -
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or to change your mail settings:
https://lists.phxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-discuss
