On 12/8/06, Paolo Alexis Falcone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 18:42 +0800, Dean Michael Berris wrote:
> Okay, I can't sit back and just let this slide.
>
> On 12/7/06, Paolo Alexis Falcone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Well, the short term costs may be higher since it's a migration from one
> > system or technology to another. What's more important though are the
> > long term savings that can be done IF the migration is done
> > strategically and successfully.
> >
>
> This is a misnomer. Just because it's FOSS doesn't mean it's cheaper
> in the long run. How much will you spend for an administrator? For
> support? For custom application development? This is all hypothetical
> and I don't feel right gambling with the country's POLICY just to try
> and prove it true. I'd rather stick to what works and if that means
> using proprietary software, then let it be -- and let FOSS fight its
> way through into the government computers.
>
How much will you spend for licenses over N number of machines? N number
of users? The cost of those are NOT hypothetical, by the way.
The answer as you well know is "IT DEPENDS" on which software are you
talking about. There are license acquisition schemes that brings this
down considerably.
And yes, it's hypothetical because your question still doesn't define
the parameters.
Even if you'd use proprietary software, You'd STILL PAY FOR AN
ADMINISTRATOR. You'd STILL PAY FOR SUPPORT. You'd STILL PAY FOR CUSTOM
APPLICATION DEVELOPMENT. And that is NOT hypothetical by the way.
Wait, are they rated the same? How much would you pay a Microsoft
Windows Administrator, compared to a RedHat Enterprise Linux
Administrator? How much does site-wide license support cost for MS
Windows compared to RedHat Enterprise Linux Support licenses? Custom
Application development on Linux depends on the scale, and it can be
shown that development on Windows platforms are way cheaper (which is
still hypothetical).
You're still playing with hypothetical situations here, and since it's
still hypothetical (the cost savings), then I refuse to believe that
there is any real savings to be made with FOSS on a long term basis --
since you say that you'll be paying for all the other areas where it's
touted that FOSS will make savings in.
A simple question would be this: would you work for free for the
Philippine Government? I for one would not, and any pragmatic person
will think twice or more before saying YES. Of course unless you're a
communist and would like the communists to take over, then that'd be
the day...
> This is a hypothetical conjuncture best used as FUD against
> proprietary or for the matter Non-FOSS solutions. Non-FOSS does not
> have to necessarily mean proprietary, and I can cite a lot of licenses
> that are not considered FOSS licenses but give the users access to the
> code AND redistribution rights.
That's one area that we'd want to push for as part of revisions to the
bill. That the license of software would just have to fall under the
criteria of FOSS license as promulgated in the bill - it shouldn't
matter if said license is OSI/FSF/UN-approved or not, as long as it
satisfies the criteria.
So what criteria are these? Does this just mirror the GNU FSF criteria
for "Free Software" or the OSI credo on source availability? Or
perhaps some Pontious Pilate from some mountains' criteria only?
Let's come up with concrete recommendations, if they will be heard anyway.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd like the FOSS bill to be scrapped, and
deal with the problems head on without a prejudicial bill like the
darned FOSS bill. Let's fix the procurement rules, the IP laws, and
standardize the requirements on the Philippine Governments' system (I
like the suggestion of POSIX compliance for OSes) and require that
systems adhere to open standards defined by ISO.
Let's discriminate solutions using objective criteria like functional
requirements, not via ideological boundaries -- remember, this is law
we're talking about, not some arbitrary pronouncement or press
release.
--
Dean Michael C. Berris
http://cplusplus-soup.blogspot.com/
mikhailberis AT gmail DOT com
+63 928 7291459
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