dear fellow members of plug,

this is the email exchange between engels of bluepoint that spun off a
thread from plug. i hope this email clears up the issues from both sides
and that we can bury this issue and start a new.

> 
> >all i want is to get the facts right. i have a problem with bad publicity
> >and more importantly premature publicity because it tends to send the
> >wrong signals to the community. we are sensitive people here.
> >
> 
> Likewise. Let me assure you that I, personally, never wanted any publicity. 
> I'm sure you understand that some people are content with what they do
> as long as they enjoy it.
> 
amen. i never intended to rant about this sorry for the
misunderstanding. well we enjoy what we do! 

> ><snipped original link to compuworld>
> >
> >> >>
> >> >> from what i understand from the article, the "distro" is a single floppy
> >> >> based one, or am i wrong? this is a far cry from being a real 
> distribution
> >> >> like admulinux is. heck, if a single floppy distribution were all there
> >> >> were to it, then we've had that kind of thing for a long while now.
> >> >>
> >> >yup. i remember making chicken linux floppy distribution when i was new to
> >> >linux. heck. i even remember other people who i compared notes with to get
> >> >the dang thing running. admulinux is wonderful distribution for the
> >> >hacker. admulinuxGO is the best teaching tool idea i have encountered in
> >> >along time. it makes me wonder if TROLLS existing only in the m$ world. i
> >> >guess they also do in the linux world.
> >>
> >> This just proves that Filipinos are exceptionally intelligent. Again, 
> there's
> >> no issue regarding AdMULinux. I, for one, agree that it was a good teaching
> >> tool (I'm from UP Diliman but I sure have a lot of Blue-blooded friends). 
> For
> >> the record, we *never* claimed that Buhawi is the first local Linux distro.
> >> For the record again, Buhawi can be compiled to run on a single floppy or 
> as a
> >> full Linux installation on regular IDE and SCSI drives. There are no TROLLS
> >> here, Mister. We just came here to code. It's not our fault that 
> Computerworld
> >> published an article about Buhawi in the way they did. Please remember that 
> no
> >> one has a monopoly on Linux or Open Source. I'm sure there's room for
> >> different distros, God knows we need more of these especially now that M$ 
> has
> >> taken to directly throwing dirt at our community.
> >>
> >i formally apologize the use of the word TROLL and for immediately
> >condemning you guys for compuworld article. mea culpa on my part.
> 
> No problem. It was just a major misunderstanding. I've quoted Alma Buelva's 
> message to our Executive Director. I hope this helps in resolving the issue.
> 
> --start of quote--
> 
> >Dear Magie,
> >
> >Hi. I'm sorry to hear about the unsavory discussions going on after my story 
> on Buhawi was published. I am not a subscriber to PLUG, but word did get to me 
> about the criticisms Bluepoint is getting from the PLUG community. I'm writing 
> you only now because I was in the States last
> >week and was quite detached from the local happenings.
> >
> >Anyway, it seems I own the fault for saying Buhawi is the "First" Filipino 
> Linux distribution. If it isn't so, then I really would like to apologize. 
> Something in your first email to me gave me that impression, and it was really 
> an honest mistake on my part to assume such. Again I'm
> >sorry. But if Buhawi is indeed the first Pinoy Linux flavor around, pls. do 
> tell so I can answer some email I got regarding the story that questions that 
> label I gave Buhawi.
> >
> >Again, I regret any inconvenience my story has caused you and Engels and the 
> whole Bluepoint Foundation.
> >
> >Thank you,
> >alma
> 
> --end of quote--
> 
> Magie actually e-mailed Alma just to tell her that the site was up.
> 
okay. nice to hear this. how about the rest of PLUG? 

> >
> >i would assume that if there was a mistake in the press release
> >you could have done something to fix it up. you know how we are in the
> >community. being a lurker you may have seen the countless issues that have
> >popped up and cause flame war.
> 
> Rest assured that we are doing something about it. Actually, there was *no* 
> press release. Alma visited the Buhawi site, e-mailed a few questions, and 
> wrote the story from there. I never intended Buhawi to be in the limelight. It 
> was on the shelf for quite a while and I only decided to continue development 
> because the foundation is set to go out and donate computers to the provinces 
> this year. It was revived solely to be installed to these computers with the 
> hope that the recipients would find it easier to learn Linux if the 
> instructions, docs, and man pages were in their native tongue. Believe me, I 
> had no intention of displacing the other local distros. Buhawi is *another* 
> local distro, not the *first* local distro.
> 
i understand and again i hope that this issue is finally resolved. i am
worried mainly about the negative impression it has given bluepoint in the
plug community.

> >
> >also i believe in the saying "give credit were credit is due". i believe
> >that we are were we are because of the countless work of other people.
> >being part of the linux community in the philippines. i believe that we
> >must work together in order to promote linux in this country. how am i
> >supposed to feel happy about open source work if a group goes around and
> >start claiming everything here and there yonder about open source and
> >linux even makes no mention about the local linux communities here such
> >as PLUG and countless other nameless people? of course, angry and hurt!
> >
> >
> 
> My apologies for the misundertanding. We did *not* mean to exclude anyone. In 
> fact, we never wanted any credit for the work we are doing. We always tell 
> people about, and invite them to join, PLUG whenever we conduct seminars and 
> symposiums on Linux. We even offered our instructional materials to Manny 
> Amador and his group when he needed stuff for an out-of-town Linux seminar. 
> All I'm saying is that we recognize PLUG as a major force in the Philippine 
> Linux community.
> 
amen!

> >> >
> >> >maybe they have their own Philippine Linux Users Group and they have a doc
> >> >mana clone!!! not as good as the real one though.
> >>
> >> Nope. We have no intention of replicating PLUG. You guys are good at what 
> you
> >> do.
> >>
> >...
> >
> >> >
> >> >> aside from them claiming to be the first filipino linux distro... they
> >> >> also claim to have run the first Linux-based BBS in the Philippines!  
> i've
> >> >> run Alien's Alcove on Linux since the mid-1990's but closed-doors to the
> >> >> public when i had to move homes. ;)  so i figure that i'd have to say
> >> >> alien's was the first. oh... for the patient and close-to-demented as i
> >> >> am, you can try "ssh -l bbs gra.ph" or "telnet -l bbs gra.ph" for some 
> old
> >> >> time fun. if it breaks, email me. :)  hey ian, remember our first ytalks
> >> >> over the modem? is robbie still an IBMer?
> >>
> >> I think I settled this issue earlier. Anyway, it's a non-issue. Again, if
> >> Alien's Alcove was the first Linux BBS, no problem here!
> >>
> >non-issue it is. next time, i just hope that people be careful with their
> >press release. if it is the culpa of the publication then call for an
> >errata.
> 
> Again, there was *no* press release. I have indeed called for an errata 
> especially since I was as surprised as most people when Buhawi was labeled as 
> the first local distro. In all honesty, I am not getting paid by the 
> foundation to code Buhawi or maintain Lalainya. It's just what we call the 
> "love of the game." Spending my own resources for something that does not 
> directly benefit me is "bad" enough. To be berated by the local Linux 
> community for claims which I did *not* make is too high a price to pay for me 
> to continue "playing the game."
> 
hope that thing work out fine now that all the facts are laid down.

> >
> >> >
> >> >i even remember reading them post about the first permanent beowulf
> >> >installation in the country??? da heck!
> >> >
> >>
> >> And we respect AGILA too, thank you. I've read your whitepaper and am quite
> >> impressed with your work. However, Lalainya was simply realized before 
> AGILA
> >> was. But hey, if being first is an issue, you can have it. IMHO, it's 
> better
> >> to have two clusters in one country anytime - whatever the achievements of
> >> AGILA or Lalainya, Pinoys win, right? Also, we are not concerned with 
> titles.
> >> As long as Lalainya performs the way we designed her to (using our own
> >> parallel processing software aside from those downloadable from the 
> Internet),
> >> we are content.
> >>
> >no problem here. i never claimed that AGILA was the first.
> >
> >i have some clustering history here. the first people who actually did it
> >were sina dr. elfredy sa UPLB(maybe neil a. would know what happened).
> >however, that cluster i am not sure about it's status. if you are talking
> >about still working cluster and realized before you it could be from any
> >of the other universities.
> >
> >MSU-IIT - 8 node dual PII cluster and one new one coming up(probably the
> >longest one i know that still is being used)
> >UPD-NIP and other UP units - 16 node athlon cluster and others
> >and others.
> >
> >we are slowly collecting this information for historical reasons. i was
> >peeved about the fact that you have released the information without even
> >taking a look at the facts first. you are from UPD right? there are
> >cluster lying around your campus too you know.
> 
> With all due respect, I never posted anything about this. I know about the 
> clusters you mentioned - there were plans of "interconnecting" them with 
> Lalainya so our Beowulf couldn't logically be the first. Please understand 
> that we *never* released any information to the press about Lalainya being 
> first. True, it initially ran on a couple of Pentium 90 clones, mostly 
> donated. But that's about it. CW touted it as one of the largest zero-cost 
> Beowulfs in the world, but that was because we were expecting more than 500 
> P-II's from Germany when they wrote about Lalainya. As I told you earlier, I 
> don't care much about accolades, titles, and etc. I simply enjoy the challenge 
> of making a Beowulf of that size work.
> 
i empathize with you and i hope that you get your donation form germany
and put the philippines in the world map. 

> >
> >----------
> >
> >i read something interesting on your site.
> >
> >"...solve metro manila's traffic problems"
> >
> >i am interested in knowing how you intend to go about this. do you plan to
> >use multistate cellular automata like the work of stephen wolfram and
> >weiner? how do you plan to discretize the CA? use a data-parallel method
> >to allocate various portions of the CA to different processing elements?
> >...or... use differential methods?
> >
> 
> This will actually depend on what data Ike Seneres will provide us to work 
> with. He's not gotten around to it due to the issues he has to face at the 
> moment :-( Now that you mention it, I think it was Ike who was so hot on 
> employing Lalainya to "solve metro manila's traffic problems." My other 
> colleagues, mostly from the Development Academy of the Philippines, wanted to 
> tap the cluster for weather analysis (in cooperation with PAGASA para may 
> social relevance daw). So in a way, I'm just using Lalainya's raw power in 
> beta testing the parallel processing codes that I'm working on until the other 
> members of the foundation finally decide on what they'd like to use the 
> cluster for.
> 
okay. maybe we can work on some join projects since we are into this too.

> It'll most likely be differential in nature but I'm not ruling out other 
> methods. I've been working with some guys from the Math building for 
> additional inputs.
> 
we are using artificial intelligence methods such as CA and neural net for
the meantime. other models will soon follow.

> >maybe we can get together sometime. we have a graduate student working on
> >this type of problem. maybe we can share some notes. now this is getting
> >off a good start!
> >
> 
> Sure. Two heads are always better than one, right? And getting off a good 
> start might help dissipate the angsts generated by this misunderstanding. God 
> knows how *beat* up I am these past few days.
> 
amen!!!

> >------------
> >
> >
> >> Last time I checked, the Philippine Linux community was a welcome place for
> >> people who would like to contribute to it. So what's with all these
> >> "righteous indignation?"
> >>
> >
> >i am sorry that we have had to start off in the wrong foot here. well, i
> >hope you understand my sentiments and the sentiments of others on this
> >issue too. people do not like the idea of one single group taking credit
> >for the work of countless others you know.
> >
> intended to grab credit for others' work. The foundation's main goal is 
> actually to try and bring computing to the masses. Linux is the best vehicle 
> for realizing this goal so we focused on it's development. We just want to 
> help, and again, I just came here to code. Please forward this to the members 
> of PLUG. I hope that this clears the air between our respective organizations.
> 
okay. i hope that thing turn out okay.
 
--------------------------------------
William Emmanuel S. Yu
Ateneo Cervini-Eliazo Networks (ACENT)
email  :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web    :  http://cersa.admu.edu.ph/
phone  :  63(2)4266001-5925/5904
 
What we wish, that we readily believe.
                -- Demosthenes
 


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