On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 11:28:19AM -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-03-18 at 10:27 -0700, Kenneth Burgener wrote:
> > Stuart Jansen wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2006-03-18 at 01:46 -0700, Ryan Simpkins wrote:
> > > And during the evenings, instead of watching TV, repent and learn Ruby.
> > > Or Python. Or Perl. But not Java, because while it's a much better
> > > designed language than PHP, it's still evil.
> >
> >
> > If Java is a much better designed language, then why is it evil? That
> > statement seems counter intuitive to me.
>
> The shear verbosity of Java is a pain. Instead of doing things the right
> way, it encourages people to cut corners. ("throws Exception") Many
> people deal with this by using IDEs. So now you have to learn the
> language _and_ a monstrously complicated program that's really only good
> for one thing.
>
> The community that surrounds a language is also important. For some
> reason Java programmers aren't happy producing simple solutions, they
> have to build frameworks with the potential to solve every problem
> mankind might ever face. An ability to perform an insane number of XML
> push ups every day is seen as a virtue instead of the lack of vision it
> really represents.Not only that, but they have to re-invent every wheel in the universe, because the wheels have to run on the JVM. Why? > > J2EE and Struts should have sent off warning alarms a long time ago. > Only in the last few years has the community realized just how insane > they are, and how desperately they need to be simplified. > > Java was specifically designed to deal with lowest common denominator > programmers. As a programmer's experience increases, she should become > exponentially more productive. Java limits that growth to a more > logarithmic curve. But on the up side, it makes it harder for the moron > two cubicles down to completely doom large team projects. > In other words, Java is object oriented Ada. Exactly so. I'm in the process of learning Java, and the verbosity is excruciatingly painful. And without #defines, there is no way to use macros to reduce the verbosity of oft-repeated snippits. And there does not seem to be any simple way to do anything. Well, not entirely true: interators are cute. But are iterators there because the Java designers don't trust you to write a loop correctly? I was horrified to find that O'Reilly's idea of a Nutshell book on Java is 1200+ pages, and again to find that it is incomplete. -- Charles Curley /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign Looking for fine software \ / Respect for open standards and/or writing? X No HTML/RTF in email http://www.charlescurley.com / \ No M$ Word docs in email Key fingerprint = CE5C 6645 A45A 64E4 94C0 809C FFF6 4C48 4ECD DFDB
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