-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate Date: 27 Apr 2004 13:13:20 -0400 From: John R Levine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Unfortunately, the [New York] Blood Center refused to accept my blood
without also taking my Social Security number.  As a result, they got
neither.

I have been arguing with blood banks about this stupid rule for a decade, but I've always gotten them to back down due to my utter inability to remember my SSN and the fact that none of the cards in my wallet that might have my SSN, such as my driver's license and my Blue Cross card, have it either.

In Boston a decade ago, they made up an identifier from the first three
letters of my last name and my date of birth.  That worked fine until I
donated in Philadelphia which couldn't deal with letters, so they took
blood with no number for a while until they mailed me a card with a five
digit number padded out with zeros to look like an SSN which I used for
many years.  Now I live in upstate NY and the NY/PA blood bank has
sensibly sent all of its donors an attractive card with a six digit donor
ID number which they use.  Their computer may think that my Philly number
is my SSN, but I don't care.  (I always made it clear that was an ID
number, not my SSN.)

The really stupid thing about using the SSN is that it utterly fails to
serve the Red Cross' purpose, to screen out people with HIV and other
conditions that make them unsuited to donate.  Why?  Because they make no
attempt to verify it.  If I had AIDS and wanted to give it to as many
people as possible, I'd donate every seven weeks and make up a different
SSN each time.  I mean, really, duh.  How could they tell?

The six digit donor ID is a much better ID because the Red Cross doesn't
really care who I am, they care that I'm the same person who claimed to be
me last time, and the donor ID card verifies that reasonably well.

One of the fixed axioms of bureacracy is that it doesn't occur to them
that bad guys won't play by their rules.  They may invent a procedure to
keep people from breaking one rule, but people who break one rule will
break other rules, and are not all so dim that they won't figure out what
the procedure is for and circumvent it.

Regards,
John Levine, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Mayor
"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.





-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:00:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



I went today to do my civic duty by donating blood -- the New York Blood
Center is calling for 2000 donations each day to make up a blood
shortage in this area. Unfortunately, the Blood Center refused to
accept my blood without also taking my Social Security number. As a
result, they got neither.


They have asked for this for years, years,
and years.

--dan, 6x/yr donor




-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:27:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Abolins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Just a quick note: The SSN has been a general sought for blood
donations in the USA as a way of dealing with HIV infections and such.
The SSN is a crappy and problem-laden method of locating bloody donors
indeed. Some references...

CFR Title 20 section concerning Social Security Administration and the
Disclosure of Official Records & Information (section 401.200) at
http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/401/401-0200.htm  Item (c) does
say "A State or an authorized person in the State may require a blood
donor to furnish his or her social security number when donating blood."
Doesn't require the SSN, just allows the use.

It seems that various states' laws do address the SSN and blood donations.
Some, like Indiana's <at
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title16/ar41/ch12.html> require the
donor to give name, address, and date of birth but state that the blood
center shall request the donor to supply the SSN. It doesn't require the
donor to give his or her SSN.

It appears that the absolute requirement to give an SSN when donating
blood in the USA may well vary with the location.

NOTE: I am not an attorney.

J.D. Abolins






-------- Original Message -------- Subject: NY Blood Center & SSNs Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:10:10 +0200 From: Peter Kaiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Kelly --

Not to mention that the SSN isn't unique, and (officially) never was intended as an identifier.
This is a problem well known to Congress which, in its wisdom, it has chosen to ignore, ever since
the first serious study in 1974. Yes, this has been known for thirty years.


But it's unconscionable to pretend that it's a unique identifier, or that it can't be forgotten,
mistaken, or faked, when lives depend upon the outcome. Shame on the blood center!


Pete






-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Kirkpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



An interesting post, but it ignores some important points. Blood bourne
disease is in epidemic proportion in the US with hepatitis leading the
list. All forms (A, B, C and their varied genotypes) are passed through
the exchange of blood and transfusions used to be a fairly common vehicle
for contamination. Since the identifier programs began in the 1990s, the
incidence of contaminated blood has dropped radically. Considering
that many forms of these diseases are fatal, that's a good thing indeed.

A unique identifier that isn't local and does not expire and is not
replacable is the only way to make identification reliable. The SSN is
about the only identifier that will work unless an entirely new system is
devised. The cost of that (on many levels) would be high, and lead to
exactly the same concerns that people might have about their social
security number.

While blood donation occurs on a local scale, it's implications are
national and even global. When a call for blood goes out, it gets
answered by localities everywhere. When a contamination occurs, it is
absolutely critical to be able to trace back to patient A in order to get
the supplies reverified. Otherwise the only thing to do is discard all of
the donated blood as suspect. That does no one any good and costs lives.

Considering that lives are the key element here, if someone sees such a
grave risk in a completely voluntary act, they shouldn't volunteer. No one
is making anyone donate blood. It isn't a civic duty, it's an act of
kindness and sharing.






-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv]
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:48:40 -0700
From: Steelhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: Steelhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I just called my local blood bank, http://www.deltabloodbank.org , where I
am a regular donr, and they have a different approach.  Some donors do not
have a SSN so they will use "Legal Name" "Birthdate" and "secondary ID" such
as a credit card etc.

I can appreciate the difference in issues, however, with a population base
in our city of only 250k in Stockton, CA vs the 10's of millions in
Urbanized New York and New Jersey, and think it is not a bad idea, as a way
of protecting the blood supply.  If you have a beter choice or solution,
please offer it to them.  I am sure it would be good to use, but that would
need something like a biometric id ... expensive, and more risk if the info
gets out.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill Ries-Knight *** Stockton, CA.

Please donate blood.
You will be glad someone else did when you need it.

My views on spam and SCO
http://www.ries-knight.net/index.html




-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:52:59 -0700 From: Alan Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I'm not sure if Kelly is aware of the thousands of organizations that use
individual SSN #s for a primary key or unique identifier.  Using the SSN
number as a unique identifier for organizations to track their constituents
is a convenient, if perhaps lazy, method for these
organizations/companies/schools/banks/etc.  I would not find fault the Blood
Bank of NY as much as I would with the SSN Administration or Congress for
not already having a law on the books preventing companies and organizations
from using the SSN in this way.




-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] New York Blood Center requires SSN to donate [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:15:46 -0500 From: Andrew G.Feinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Declan,

        Here where I go to school in Madison, WI, I had a protracted argument
with the campus blood donation center (run by the Red Cross) over this.
When I pointed out that they were not an agency allowed by law to
demand my SSN, they relented and gave me an unique ID, with sincere
apologies from a supervisor who was more familiar with the law. Perhaps
the donor should try another blood bank run by the ARC, since they seem
to have a clue and some respect for privacy.

Andrew


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


_______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/)

Reply via email to