dear Pak Hakim,
u dont i answer my previous question.., do u or can u not find any single
proof of fair treatment for non-muslim in arab countries? yes or no? if
yes..show me the proof...
im still waiting for ur answer referred to the fair treatment from western
countries which i have posted earlier.
let me make it simple for u..., those moslems that came to western countries re
immigrant but still they treated fairly. but those non-muslim in arab countries
re native arabs. (christian arabs or copts in eqypt). so when i ask u abt the
proof regarding fair treatment for non muslim in arabs countries, it should me
easier for u to answer and give me the proof, rite?
im still waiting for ur proof.
----- Original Message ----
From: hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:58:35 AM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
Dear Ibu Carla
Why they still come..? Tentunya banyak alasan dan sebab mengapa mereka
masih terus berdatangan ke negara-negara maju. Salah satunya bisa jadi
ada "gula" ada "semut". Adanya gula bisa membuat orang berspekulasi
menantang bahaya di negara tujuan. Jangankan negara damai yang aturan dan
hukumnya jelas, lha di negara yang kacau balau saja banyak orang berdatangan
untuk mengadu nasib.
Bisa juga karena, imigran tersebut merupakan pelarian politik yang tidak "sreg"
dengan penguasa mereka.
Ibu Carla jangan salah, dari contoh saya di bawah jelas terlihat bahwa tidak
semua tempat/negara memperlakukan umat muslim dengan buruk. Hal ini
klop dengan contoh yang Ibu utarakan.
Ibu mau contoh jelas?
I'll give you the proof. Pls, look at mbah Danar. He is not a second class.
He is an international banker.
Dari postingan mbah Danar, berkali-kali beliau sampaikan kalau sering
berbisnis dengan orang Arab di negara-negara Timur Tengah. Coba tanyakan
pengalaman mbah Danar dengan timnya di Middle East.
Apakah mbah Danar diperlakukan dengan baik? atau sebaliknya?
Pripun mbah Danar? sae to mbah?
Salam sae
Hakim
----- Original Message -----
From: carla annamarie kneefel
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
dear pak Hakim,
both of us agree that fact must be fair.
since early 60's until now, muslims from arab countries went to US n Europe,
they even went to western embassy for help bcs they want to flew from their
arab countries. the number of immigrant moslems have been increasing year after
year, my logical question is if they knew the western will treat them bad, why
they still come..? it's not logic, isn't it? i mean why they left their
precious arab countries and went to US n Europe? bcs the freedom and liberty in
western country.
in this modern society can u give me an example of the fair treatment for non
muslim in arab countries compared to the treatment for muslim in western
countries ?
do the minority of non-muslim have the same freedom in arab countries as muslim
gain more freedom in western countries?
as in my previous post, i already shown the fact abt how the western treat
muslim in their country. muslim not only had given freedom but demand
preference.
from all place on earth..where sunnis n shi'a killed each other, burn each
other's mosques, only in western countries they can live peacefully.. not in
arabs countries, do u you know why? bcs the freedom and liberty. bcs civil law
is the supreme law in western society not religious law.
fact prove that even religious law cant settle the war between sunni and shi'a,
rite?
so pak Hakim, can u show me an evidence of proof abt the fair treatment of
non-muslim in arab countries.., i mean a fair treatment, not a second class
citizen. , show the fair treatment of non muslim in arab countries and compared
it to how the muslims have been treatment in western countries.
show me the proof? im waiting.
----- Original Message ----
From: hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:46:31 AM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
Fact must be fair
Jumlah gereja di Jawa jauh lebih banyak daripada jumlah masjid/musholla di
daerah Manado, NTT, Ambon dan sekitarnya.
Adalah tidak fair kalau hanya menyoroti "kesulitan" pendirian gereja di Jawa
sedangkan "kesulitan" pendirian masjid/musholla di daerah-daerah tsb tidak
pernah digubris.
Pendirian masjid di negara-negara maju juga tidaklah semudah pendirian
gereja di Indonesia. Butuh pengorbanan banyak hal dan butuh waktu
bertahun-tahun untuk mewujudkan pendirian masjid-masjid tsb.
Kalaupun fakta yang disampaikan Ibu Carla memang benar, hal tersebut
tidaklah dapat menutupi fakta baik fakta sejarah maupun saat ini adanya
perlakukan non muslim kepada orang muslim baik berupa pembantaian muslimin
di Spanyol, Bosnia, Maluku, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Irak, dsb.
Belum lagi perlakuan diskriminasi yang dialami banyak tenaga kerja (PRT,
Sopir, dsb) yang bekerja di keluarga non muslim.
Harap maklum
Salam be fair
Hakim
----- Original Message -----
From: "carla annamarie kneefel" <carla_annamarie17@ yahoo.com>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] p s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
fact must be fair...
in US there're more mosques than churches in arab countries.
we roll out the red carpet for the immigrant Muslims, treat them as we would
with our own citizens, give them stipends, medical care, and free education.
in EU countries, they re many moslem immigrant who lives freely, building
they mosques, they lives by our tax, we gave them our country to live, we
gave them medical n education n financial support, there're many students
from arabs countries who grant scholarship from our countries (EU and US).
Western governments have allowed Muslim communities to settle in their
countries, offered financial aid in building their mosques, and allowed them
to bring Imams from Muslim lands. why were some propagandists of political
Islam allowed to settle in Western countries?
Millions of Muslims come to the 'Infidel West' and live in it, in peace and
tranquility. In fact the proportional number of mosques in the West is
greater than in Islamic lands. For example there are more than one thousand
mosques in Britain, while the number of Muslims living there is around two
million! At the same time, Copts in Egypt are not allowed to build new
churches unless they get permission from the President; and obtaining the
needed permit for that is almost impossible. Furthermore, when a Christian
comes to Saudi Arabia, he is not allowed to bring his Bible with him; if he
has one, it is confiscated at the airport!
"Muslims enjoy complete freedom of worship in the West; in fact they have
more freedom in Western lands than in Islamic countries. Actually, religious
freedom for Muslims is granted only and uniquely to the type of Islam that
is sanctioned by the state.
Thus, Shi'ites living in Wahhabi Saudi Arabia don't enjoy the freedom to
express their own type of Islam. As for Iran, the case is reversed, since
Shi'ism is the official religion of the state, Sunni Muslims do not enjoy
complete freedom. It is a fact that no mosque has been bombed in any Western
country, whereas attacks on mosques, [both Sunni and Shi'ite mosques] often
happen in Islamic countries .
----- Original Message ----
From: hakim <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:58:01 AM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
Nambahin pak...
Dalam bahasa singkat adalah sbb :
Ketika menjadi minoritas, non muslim menonjolkan "cinta kasih".
Ketika menjadi mayoritas, non muslim terlihat aslinya kepada umat Islam
al: diskriminasi, mempersulit pendirian masjid, stigma negatif, genocida
dsb.
Gimana mbah? salah apa benar mbah?
Pls be fair.
Salam fair
Hakim
----- Original Message -----
From: hariss_ypmi@ yamaha-motor. co.id
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami
diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
pak samsidar..just info ya, pak raden ini bukan orang kristen, ga tahu deh
agamanya apa? ga jelas :)
tetep ajah minoritas di sini lebih 'unjuk gigi' ketimbang minoritas muslim
di negara kafir. Lha minoritas di sini kebakaran jenggot dg bunyi sila 1
pancasila 'menjalankan syariat islam bagi pemeluknya' trus skrng bunyinya
gimana tuh? hehe
minoritas di sini emang top, sering usil jg, walau ga semua, ada jg yg
baik (kaya'nya pak raden ga termasuk tuh) yah ada ajah anak nakalnya
(kaya' sapa ya? :p), nah giliran 'dijewer' ajah nangis deh merengek2, yg
katanya muslimnya melanggar ham lah inilah itulah hehe udh gede jgn
cengeng aah
Samsidar Situmorang <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
11/28/2007 10:40 AM
Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
To
[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
cc
Subject
Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya
juga sangat sedih)
Bung Dono,
memangnya bukan di negerimu juga? kamu tinggal dimana?
dari dulu yang namanya minoritas tentu harus menghormati yang mayoritas (
namanya tau diri), ini juga namanya 'tepo seliro' kata orang jawa
(bukankah kamu yang lebih ngerti sebagai keturunan darah biru ..kok malah
lagak Bego?)
islam, kristen, hindu dan agama lain, kulit hitam, semuanya susah
mendapatkan keadilan bila jadi minoritas, itu sudah hukum alam, wong
dasarnya manusia memang susah berbuat adil..
makanya elo jangan ngomong seenak perut sendiri....memangny a kamu tinggal
dimana?? kok lagaknya sok tau betul dengan negeri ini.
elo pernah dengar sejarah-nya kristen di Bali???? bagaimana mereka
dipinggirkan? ???
bagaimana sejarah islam di Bali?
sejarah Islam di Manado?
elo ngomong asal keluar mulut saja....memangnya kamu sendiri yang
kristiani??
gue saranin elo musti belajar lagi deh
----- Pesan Asli ----
Dari: RM Danardono HADINOTO <rm_danardono@ yahoo.de>
Kepada: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com
Terkirim: Rabu, 28 November, 2007 7:43:48
Topik: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi
(saya juga sangat sedih)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, sFe <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ..> wrote:
>
> Muslim Filipina Berharap Undang-Undang Anti-Diskriminasi Segera
Disahkan Selasa, 27 Nov 07 15:54 WIB
>
> Warga Muslim Filipina kini sedang berharap-harap cemas, akankah
wakil rakyat di negeri itu mau mengesahkan undang-undang anti-
diskriminasi. Karena keberadaan undang-undang ini secara tidak
langsung akan berpengaruh bagi kehidupan mereka sebagai warga
minoritas di negara yang mayoritas penduduknya beragama Katolik itu.
>
*** Urus dulu, bagaimana minoritas diperlakukan oleh umat Muslim di
negeri anda sendiri, sebelum melirik ke negeri orang. Bacalah
penutupan rumah rumah ibadah dan perlakuan mempersulit pendirian
rumah ibadah.
Tambahan ya: Muslim di Philippina membuat ONAR dengan kekuatan
senjata, di negeri anda, Non Muslim malah yang kasih nafkah pada
anda! dari pembantu rumah tangga, buruh pabrik sampai satpam satpam
dan pemulung di hunian hunian menengah keatas semua diberi makan
pengusaha atau pemilik realestat Non Muslim. perusahaan perusahaan
terbesar pembayar pajak siapa sih? Lalu di Philippina bagaimana?
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