As one of the list moderators, might I interject two words here: "please" and "stop"?
I agree with Drew's sentiments, if not completely with his tone. But if his tone offends you or anyone else, please reply to him off-list. Let's keep this list very focused. Thanks! --Scott On Jan 20, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Alexander Repenning wrote: > Hi Drew, > > perhaps the point of a mailing list for professional lisp developers is to > act, well ... professional? > > Remember one of the points made in original article about the Lisp community: > "The community isn’t nearly as blood thirsty as some people might portrait > it." > > Seems to me you just confirmed what many people appear to worry about. Well > done. > > Alex > > > > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Drew Crampsie wrote: > >> On 20 January 2011 08:04, Alexander Repenning <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Common Lisp has gone STALE. The Common Lisp community preserves Lisp >>> instead of advancing it. >> >> I participated in the creation of this mailing list in part to get >> away from trolling like this on the other lisp forums. Is there no >> place on the interwebs safe from such bullshit? >> >>> The 21 century computer science world need no more essays explaining why >>> Common Lisp is the way it is (stale). >> >> And i'm not convinced a mailing list for professional lisp developers >> needs more diatribes explaining how _we_ should 'fix' Common Lisp to >> make it 'cool' again. >> >> Can we leave this sort of drivel on comp.lang.lisp where i have >> plonk-ability, and keep this mailing list for "people who already know >> and use Common Lisp and who don't want to discuss the >> merits of it or how other languages are worse or better"? >> >> Cheers, >> >> drewc >> >> >> >> >> >> On 20 January 2011 08:04, Alexander Repenning <[email protected]> wrote: >>> One point made: >>> >>>> It’s probably faster than most dynamic languages. >>> >>> is still mostly true but as I am tracking the speed of JavaScript versus >>> Common Lisp I can see a scary performance cross over point in the near >>> future (months). Already, in some of our benchmarks JavaScript running in >>> OS X Chrome is getting very close (10% gap) to Clozure Common Lisp. Why is >>> that? Common Lisp has gone STALE. The Common Lisp community preserves Lisp >>> instead of advancing it. The result: flatline! As far as I can tell non of >>> the exciting JIT compiler technologies developed in the last couple of >>> years have made it into any CL implementation. If you follow this trend you >>> may conclude the right thing to do, if you want to continue to use Lisp, >>> would be to compile it down to JavaScript, yes, JavaScript, not C or direct >>> to binary. >>> >>> Same thing with IDEs: stale, flatline.. Perhaps with the exception of >>> LispWorks it appears that most Lisp programmers are just fine with Emacs. >>> Well, Emacs was great 35 years ago. Remember the actually innovative IDEs >>> of Lisp on Lisp machines? Is SLIME really the best we can do now? Take >>> Clozure CL. As far as I can tell most people, including some the developers >>> perhaps, are using SLIME too. Start using something new. For instance start >>> using the Cocoa based CCL IDE. Yes, still primitive but with real >>> opportunities to create some fine IDE tools that actually would look OK >>> even to a 21 Century computer science students. Nowadays, even browser >>> (e.g., Safari and FireFox) have debugging tools built in that make SLIME >>> look like last century technology that belongs to a computer museum. >>> >>> The Lisp community is not only small but also fragmented. The 21 century >>> computer science world need no more essays explaining why Common Lisp is >>> the way it is (stale). It is time to leap into action and to IMPLEMENT >>> stuff that is not just interesting to the Common Lisp community but to >>> computer science in general. Play with Clozure Common Lisp the IDE version >>> (Mac and Window). Do not just get frustrated and switch back to Slime but >>> ask yourself "what can YOU do for Common Lisp (or more specifically CCL) to >>> make it cool again" >>> >>> best, Alex >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 19, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Daniel Weinreb wrote: >>> >>>> This is a very nice essay to help people get over their >>>> initial problems with Lisp: >>>> >>>> http://pavelpenev.posterous.com/learning-lisp-the-bump-free-way >>> >>> Prof. Alexander Repenning >>> >>> University of Colorado >>> Computer Science Department >>> Boulder, CO 80309-430 >>> >>> vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pro mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pro >>> > > Prof. Alexander Repenning > > University of Colorado > Computer Science Department > Boulder, CO 80309-430 > > vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf > > > _______________________________________________ > pro mailing list > [email protected] > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pro
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