On 20 January 2011 11:46, Alexander Repenning <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Drew, > perhaps the point of a mailing list for professional lisp developers is to > act, well ... professional?
Is it professional to publish what was intended as private correspondence on a public mailing list? > Remember one of the points made in original article about the Lisp > community: "The community isn’t nearly as blood thirsty as some people > might portrait it." I can't speak for the entire community, only for myself. > Seems to me you just confirmed what many people appear to worry about. Well > done. I'm not going to get in this argument on this mailing list, i don't think it's the place. If you'd like to have this discussion, please feel free to email me privately. Cheers, drewc > Alex > > > > On Jan 20, 2011, at 10:57 AM, Drew Crampsie wrote: > > On 20 January 2011 08:04, Alexander Repenning <[email protected]> wrote: > > Common Lisp has gone STALE. The Common Lisp community preserves Lisp instead > of advancing it. > > I participated in the creation of this mailing list in part to get > away from trolling like this on the other lisp forums. Is there no > place on the interwebs safe from such bullshit? > > The 21 century computer science world need no more essays explaining why > Common Lisp is the way it is (stale). > > And i'm not convinced a mailing list for professional lisp developers > needs more diatribes explaining how _we_ should 'fix' Common Lisp to > make it 'cool' again. > > Can we leave this sort of drivel on comp.lang.lisp where i have > plonk-ability, and keep this mailing list for "people who already know > and use Common Lisp and who don't want to discuss the > merits of it or how other languages are worse or better"? > > Cheers, > > drewc > > > > > > On 20 January 2011 08:04, Alexander Repenning <[email protected]> wrote: > > One point made: > > It’s probably faster than most dynamic languages. > > is still mostly true but as I am tracking the speed of JavaScript versus > Common Lisp I can see a scary performance cross over point in the near > future (months). Already, in some of our benchmarks JavaScript running in OS > X Chrome is getting very close (10% gap) to Clozure Common Lisp. Why is > that? Common Lisp has gone STALE. The Common Lisp community preserves Lisp > instead of advancing it. The result: flatline! As far as I can tell non of > the exciting JIT compiler technologies developed in the last couple of years > have made it into any CL implementation. If you follow this trend you may > conclude the right thing to do, if you want to continue to use Lisp, would > be to compile it down to JavaScript, yes, JavaScript, not C or direct to > binary. > > Same thing with IDEs: stale, flatline.. Perhaps with the exception of > LispWorks it appears that most Lisp programmers are just fine with Emacs. > Well, Emacs was great 35 years ago. Remember the actually innovative IDEs of > Lisp on Lisp machines? Is SLIME really the best we can do now? Take Clozure > CL. As far as I can tell most people, including some the developers perhaps, > are using SLIME too. Start using something new. For instance start using the > Cocoa based CCL IDE. Yes, still primitive but with real opportunities to > create some fine IDE tools that actually would look OK even to a 21 Century > computer science students. Nowadays, even browser (e.g., Safari and FireFox) > have debugging tools built in that make SLIME look like last century > technology that belongs to a computer museum. > > The Lisp community is not only small but also fragmented. The 21 century > computer science world need no more essays explaining why Common Lisp is the > way it is (stale). It is time to leap into action and to IMPLEMENT stuff > that is not just interesting to the Common Lisp community but to computer > science in general. Play with Clozure Common Lisp the IDE version (Mac and > Window). Do not just get frustrated and switch back to Slime but ask > yourself "what can YOU do for Common Lisp (or more specifically CCL) to make > it cool again" > > best, Alex > > > > > On Jan 19, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Daniel Weinreb wrote: > > This is a very nice essay to help people get over their > > initial problems with Lisp: > > http://pavelpenev.posterous.com/learning-lisp-the-bump-free-way > > Prof. Alexander Repenning > > University of Colorado > > Computer Science Department > > Boulder, CO 80309-430 > > vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pro mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pro > > > Prof. Alexander Repenning > > University of Colorado > > Computer Science Department > > Boulder, CO 80309-430 > > vCard: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~ralex/AlexanderRepenning.vcf > > _______________________________________________ pro mailing list [email protected] http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pro
