Dave, Which part of Singer did you work for? I was seconded to the Link-Miles Simulator Division from 78 to 82.
John John Weller 01380 723235 07976 393631 > -----Original Message----- > From: ProfoxTech [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Dave Crozier > Sent: 26 April 2013 13:41 > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > Adam, > Never knew you worked for ICL, so did I for 6 years when they took over > Singer, who I was with originally. You'll remember the yearly "October > Revolutions" then! lol > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam > Buckland > Sent: 26 April 2013 09:26 > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > Hi Virgil, > > Late to the thread, but I have to disagree with you. Microsoft did not employ > exclusively experienced programmers, I had two other Companies (ICL and > HP Labs) under my belt before I went to Microsoft, yes I relocated from the > UK to Washington, but the interview process was more about what you were > capable of rather than what you knew (My tests were on C, MASM, Unix and > compilers and assemblers in general). > > There was as you allude to hero worship within MS towards BG and others, > but the pressure to produce fast tight code was immense, code review > meetings were the biggest bitch sessions I've ever known however the > latitude given to programming staff is great. I had a chaise longue in my > office, another guy had a baby grand piano. I was there at the end of the 80's > and often wish I'd stayed on as the guy I went over with from HP stayed an > extra 5 years and retired on his options... > > Microsoft definitely did not employ cheap labour, yes there was a kudos > working for them but that evaporated when everyone you knew worked for > them... the salary was good and the options and benefits were too... > > But then that was over 20 years ago and a lot of water has flowed under the > bridge since then.... > > Adam. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Virgil > Bierschwale > Sent: 24 April 2013 13:05 > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > That is what we are told by the media. > > One of these days people are going to realize that the media is owned, > controlled, and shackled by six multinational corporations. > > > > Let me show you what was happening back in the 80's > > > > Through the architects and program managers, Gates was able to control the > work of every programmer at Microsoft, but to do so reliably required cheap > and obedient labor. Gates set a policy that consciously avoided hiring > experienced programmers, specializing, instead, in recent computer science > graduates. > > > > Microsoft became a kind of cult. By hiring inexperienced workers and > indoctrinating them into a religion that taught the concept that > metaprogrammers were better than mere programmers and that Bill Gates, > as the metametaprogrammer, was perfect, Microsoft created a system of > hero worship that extended Gates's will into every aspect of the lives of > employees he had not even met. It worked for Kim Il Sung in North Korea, > and it works in the suburbs east of Seattle too. > > > > Most software companies hire the friends of current employees, but > Microsoft hires kids right out of college and relocates them. The company's > appetite for new programming meat is nearly insatiable. One year Microsoft > got in trouble with the government of India for hiring nearly every computer > science graduate in the country and moving them all to Redmond. > > > > After studying this for ten years to see why I can't find work anymore, I have > come to realize that this is only happening in the mega corporations for the > most part. > > > > The readers of this list are not typically affected by such things as they are > self employed, and if they get their business from similar sized businesses, > they should be good. > > > > Problem is, those that get their business from the megacorporations seem to > be experiencing what the writer discusses. > > > > I first noticed this back around 2000 which is why I worked to get my way into > management and out of development. > > > > When my mother was diagnosed with cancer, I moved home to texas > thinking I could find work in Austin and ya'll know most of that story. > > > > Ten years later I find myself pigeonholed as the typical software developer > with outdated skills that he writes about in his article. > > > > All of this said though, what I finally realized was happening in 2011 and > 2012 was that the supply is greater than the demand which allows things like > this to happen. > > > > The reason that supply is greater than demand is the offshoring of jobs which > is why I fight it via Keep America At Work. > > > > That doesn't mean that I don't think that every country needs good jobs, > because I do. > > > > It is just that when you honestly pull your head out of the sand and run the > numbers, the data doesn't lie as I attempt to show in this article. > > > > http://keepamericaatwork.com/archives/210917 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:31 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > > > Sure but was it not always thus, for all types of tech professionals? > > > > It also depends on location and skill base - here in Ireland there are no kids > coming out of college with IT and development skills because they were all > told 'tech is dead, go into pharma' after the dotcom bubble. To an extent > where despite being a country under an IMF bailout with high-ish > unemployment, the Googles and Microsofts who have their European bases > here often have to recruit people from outside the country because they > can't find enough people from inside. > > > > But yes - upskill or die, as ever. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Post Messages to: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > > Subscription Maintenance: <http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox> > http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > > OT-free version of this list: > <http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech> > http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > > Searchable Archive: <http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox> > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > > This message: > <http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1366803078.9218.1406612220957 > 38.3C93 > [email protected]> > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1366803078.9218.140661222095738 > .3C930 > [email protected] > > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the > author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. 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