> I taught my son elementary APL when he was 10 years old, and he loved it!
I remember APL rapidly catching on with IBM salesmen in the 1970s. At Long Last, they were free of the programming dept (and the extended wait for their services). No IBM salesman I ever met had the slightest difficulty learning APL (provided it was their first programming language, i.e. nearly all of them). Some salesmen created very nifty support systems for themselves. A company founded by an ex-IBMer (sales planner actually, not salesman) on just such a hacked-out APL app was sold in 2003 for $10 million. (I'm talking about FREGI--> KPS --> Adaytum Planning) -- IBM have since bought it back :-D By the same token, IBM salesmen were damn' careful not to sell APL to customers. For fear of "losing control of the account"!! Reminds me of the old old story about Ronson Lighters and the Everlasting Matchstick. On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > J is a rich language, and it might be a good idea to define an elementary > subset for beginners. J is a nice calculator for elementary computations. You > can do a lot of computing without knowing anything about binomial > coefficients and taylor expansions and capped forks. If you need to > understand everything in order to be happy, then you may be unhappy. I taught > my son elementary APL when he was 10 years old, and he loved it! > > - Bo > > > > >>________________________________ >> Fra: Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> >>Til: programm...@jsoftware.com >>Sendt: 16:06 fredag den 30. november 2012 >>Emne: Re: [Jprogramming] @: and capped fork >> >>I too have felt the need for Really Prominent Pages (RPPs?) and I've >>regretfully come to conclude that the only workable solution for the >>beginner is the forum, as Dan hints. Hence certain issues will turn up >>over and over again in the threads. >> >>Experienced programmers, trying to pick-up J from the reference manual >>as they go along, are especially vulnerable. What "experience" can >>prepare you for J? >> >>Trains are indeed a pratfall, and I think it boils down to this. When you see >> f g h noun NB. (1) >>even if you've read and re-read all the stuff about J's bracketing >>rules, you're still tempted to think you can write: >> v=: f g h NB. (2) >> v noun >>...and it gives a different result. So you begin to suspect J is only >>for people addicted to brain-teasers. It doesn't help to be told that >>(2) is a "train" and (1) isn't. (sic) >> >>But I didn't start this thread just to gripe (yet again) about the >>opaqueness of J and its documentation. Researching computer >>(un)usability and how to fix it has been my career, and I was drawn >>into J in the first place by these very considerations. It has proved >>a rich hunting-ground, even more so than APL, which hitherto had been >>the best I'd encountered. Industrial experience has taught me you need >>to spend millions to write good documentation -- unless you want to >>stick to telling people things they know perfectly well already, which >>J emphatically doesn't. >> >>Oh, don't get the idea I only value J the way a doctor values a sick >>patient. Having climbed the learning curve, it's my language of >>choice, and I don't regret it. Why, I'd even pay good money for it. >>(And if you're an APL user you say that with a gulp!) >> >>On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Alex Giannakopoulos >><aeg...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >>> I agree that all this needs more and *clear* and *visible* explanation! >>> It was the first question I asked, and in the two+ years (on-and-off) that >>> I have been mucking around with J I have seen asked on this forum umpteen >>> times. >>> I have also seen it debated at length (and breadth and depth). By >>> experienced users, experts and newbies alike. Unfortunately these >>> discussions get buried in the (not easily searchable) list archives and the >>> question keeps popping up, kind of like Nosferatu. >>> >>> Maybe we need a REALLY prominent page explaining it once and for all. >>> I must add that for someone coming from another language, the idea of >>> trains is massively alien (and a pain until you see their utility). >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
