I think this effort, and Bob's nice JHS app displaying datatype and rank hints of results are worthwhile. We could make J harder by enforcing only ascii numeric data, and deleting all of its documentation, but if that seems an obviously poor choice, then so would discouraging attempts to enhance documentation and accessibility.
________________________________ From: Don Guinn <dongu...@gmail.com> To: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 9:42:39 AM Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] J in 5 minutes Things are difficult and useless until they are obvious. J has two concepts that are obvious and easy to understand. Array thinking and associated rank. Well, they are obvious once one understands them. Until then they are extremely difficult and serial thinking is so much easier because that is what we have been taught from the first grade on. Then throw in a bunch of primitives built around mathematical concepts, many of which have been around for generations, but only studied by few people. For these people J is great because it does much of the grunt work allowing them to get on with the problem at hand. Just learn the notation. But the rest of us have to struggle not only with the J notation, but the underlying concepts. Concepts that took a lot of time to fully understand. Maybe years. Then throw in the serial approach in programming computers. Necessary because today's computers are serial. Tell an experienced programmer to ignore what he knows and spent years learning because APL, J and other array languages do things differently and it is a turn-off. Math for most people is add, subtract, multiply and divide. Talk about anything beyond that and most people stop listening. Spread sheets are OK. Just don't call it an array. Matrix is cool and geeky. J is more than a notation. It is a "Tool for Thought". Most people want a tool that is "easy" so they can get on with their problem without thinking. Just "turn the crank". But then, I am rambling. Perhaps showing J to do spread sheet type calculations is a way to show J in a way that would appeal in five minutes. On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Bo Jacoby <bojac...@yahoo.dk> wrote: > Learning a little J is fast, and is worth while. I like this example > exxplaining addition. > 7#1 > 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 > 14#1 > 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 > (7#1),(14#1) > 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 > #(7#1),(14#1) > 21 > 7+14 > 21 > > > Learning more J is still worth while. > > > > > Den 13:37 søndag den 16. februar 2014 skrev R.E. Boss <r.e.b...@planet.nl > >: > > From > http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2009/07/steep-learning-curves.html'Thus, a > “steep learning curve” in common parlance refers to the difficulty > of learning something.' > > > > > >R.E. Boss > > > >(Add your info to http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Community/Demographics ) > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: programming-boun...@forums.jsoftware.com [mailto:programming- > >> boun...@forums.jsoftware.com] On Behalf Of Robert Knight > >> Sent: zondag 16 februari 2014 12:59 > >> To: programm...@jsoftware.com > >> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] J in 5 minutes > >> > >> If J's learning curve were indeed "steep," then learning it in "5 > minutes" > >> would be feasible. Unfortunately, it is quite shallow. > >> > >> ** > >> -Robert Knight > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:21 AM, R.E. Boss <r.e.b...@planet.nl> wrote: > >> > >> Let me be the odd one out and disagree with those who want J in 5 > minutes > >> or > >> > presenting different types of nouns in different colors or formats. > >> > > >> > IMHO the steep learning curve of J is very useful (and, who knows, > >> > intended), it selects the right kind of people. That's how evolution > works. > >> > To paraphrase Mark Twain: "If we try to convince stupid people, they > will > >> > drag us down to their level and beat us by experience". > >> > So let's not try to make learning J easier, we will end up > simplifying the > >> > language to a level we don't want. > >> > > >> > And for people who want to teach J to kids, read > >> > > >> > http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-gaming-could-be-the- > >> future-of- > >> > education/<http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-gaming- > >> could-be-the-future-of-education/> > >> > > >> > > >> > R.E. Boss > >> > > >> > (Add your info to > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Community/Demographics ) > >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
