What if we never needed NuVoc because each verb would tell you it's definition
is if you happened to ask?
<"1 toupper"0>"0;:'alpha beta gamma'
┌─────┬─────┬─────┐
│ALPHA│BETA │GAMMA│
└─────┴─────┴─────┘
toupper
3 : 0
x=. I. 26 > n=. ((97+i.26){a.) i. t=. ,y
($y) $ ((x{n) { (65+i.26){a.) x}t
)
each
&.>
^
^
&.
&.
Children learn words. Then nouns and verbs. Sentences come later. Reading
becomes easier. Harder books are read.
Herder words are learned. But you don't need to translate each word in a
sentence for a skilled reader.
So my thinking about learning J is just learn more words. Look then up and
study them when you don't understand them. Ken loved the Webster's Unabridged
Dictionary and seemed to have read every page! Just keep reading and you will
write better.
So someday could we just enter > </\ in J and have it tell us what it
thinks it is?
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tracy Harms
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 8:21 PM
To: Programming forum
Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Design goals readability and writeability?
Erling Hellenäs,
I don't doubt you like simplified programs where redundancies or other
unnecessary things have been removed. So do I.
What I don't know how to do is use adverbs or conjunctions as padding. I
also don't understand what you have in mind when you say they are sometimes
used as padding.
--
T
On Jul 14, 2014 8:01 PM, "Erling Hellenäs" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I very much appreciate these operators when they are needed. When only
> used as padding they seem like a huge complication both for readability and
> writeability. /Erling
>
> On 2014-07-15 01:03, Tracy Harms wrote:
>
>> Erling Hellenäs,
>>
>> It doesn't take much to get a set of language features that make all other
>> language features technically unnecessary or redundant. This comes with
>> computational universality, as sketched here:
>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing-complete
>>
>> What makes it attractive to see verb trains as fundamental is the way they
>> have been tied to lexical adjacency. This is among the most noteworthy
>> aspects of the design of J as a language. Verb trains are incredibly easy
>> to create because they rely mainly on adjacency (and the absence of nouns
>> in the role of arguments to verbs, which also involves adjacency rules.)
>>
>> Where do we get this idea that verb trains are "fundamental" while
>> modifiers (a.k.a. operators, if we follow Heaviside) are ancillary? What
>> most accommodates that notion is Cap, which is one of relatively few
>> irregularities in a language that (in part) came out of an effort to
>> rationalize, i.e. remove inconsistencies. With Cap set aside the role of
>> modifiers becomes clear, to my view. I advise contemplating the qualities
>> of tacit J without Cap, for awhile.
>>
>> --
>> Tracy Harms
>> On Jul 13, 2014 11:33 AM, "Erling Hellenäs" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is not possible to reformulate the verb trains with caps so that most
>>> of the &'s and @'s are no longer needed? So that it is shown they had no
>>> actual function? /Erling
>>>
>>> On 2014-07-13 17:20, Tracy Harms wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jul 13, 2014 6:41 AM, "Erling Hellenäs" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Most of the &'s and @'s are written not because they are needed
>>>>> as operators, but are used only as padding, to avoid the othervise
>>>>> automatic creation of hooks and forks?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. It seems inaccurate to call that "padding." They apply at a
>>>> meta-level.
>>>> They do not interfere with the formation of verb trains, they contribute
>>>> to
>>>> the formation of verb trains.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> T
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>>
>
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